Fear of people.Boys and girls.

[miguel]

Great advice ether and thanks for sharing your experiences and ideas.For me i think is teathre,music,(and yoga![])....that direction,that style of things.But i dont have clearly what is the best,or maybe i havent discovered it yet...one practice that attracts my like my spititual practices...Ill think about it.
Thanks![]

[CarsonZi]

Hi Etherfish.....

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

Is there anything I, and Miguel can do to keep from picking up on other's energy so easily and identifying with it so strongly?

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

Yes it's what I wrote above(*now below*), by strengthening your image of yourself. It is not a problem identifying empathetically with other people when you are strong within yourself.

Well sir....I don't know if I totally agree with you.  I am pretty darn secure with who I am.  But the longer I continue a twice daily sadhana, the more I notice that I have difficulties not "tuning" in to other's energies.  And over the past year or so I have only grown stronger and more independent as an individual, not less.

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

You need to strengthen your self mentally so that you don't care what other people think.

You see, this is not an issue in any way for me personally.  I truly do not care what others think of me.  I enjoy hearing other people's opinions and I enjoy taking them all into perspective, but I also enjoy having my own point of view independent of anyone elses.  I am a very independent thinker and don't really find I am very influenced at all by other people and their thoughts.  The issue I am trying to highlight here is something a little different I think.  What I am trying to say is that when in social circumstances, it is difficult for me to not become "energetically involved" with those around me.  For example....I am having dinner and drinks with about 10 friends at a pub.  Most of them are there to watch a Pay-Per-View UFC fight.  I am there for the company and conversation.  But I notice after about 5 minutes of being there, that I am soon overcome with a tremendous sense of fear of hostility towards me...then an overwhelming sensation of needing/wanting to hide, etc etc.  These types of feelings.  These are not things I normally feel in any situation.  Then I realize that I can feel these sensations stronger in the front right side of my body.  Almost a pulling sensation.  I notice who is sitting in that direction and instantly realize that these feelings are not my own, but the feelings of the girl sitting across and to the right of me at the table.  This is a girl who I know has had some problems with being physically abused by her former partner, and if very timid and shy and doesn't speak much in social situations.  I watch her a little out of the corner of my eye once I realize I am picking up on her feelings and notice a few things.  I notice that when her eyes turn to one of the TV's in the room displaying the UFC fight, the fear and sense of a need to hide increase rapidly, as does my heartbeat.  I assume hers was as well.  The sensations diminish somewhat when I observe her in conversation with one of the people around her.  At one point, (and this is when I realized that this may become an issue in the future for me) when one of the fighters on TV got knocked out and was flailing a bit on the canvas from the severe blow to the head, I saw her catch her breath at the exact same time I did, and then tears well up in both our eyes and I had to leave quickly before anyone noticed I was about to start balling.  I'm not sure if she left the table or not at this time, or if she just suppressed the tears.  I couldn't.  It was too overwhelming.  Anyways, this happens pretty regularly to me these days.  Especially strong in the past week or two.  I really don't think that this is a case of me not having a strong enough sense of myself, or that I am weak mentally or something.  I really don't think that is the case.  

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

This will happen automatically from yoga practice. just make the decision that you will always be different from other people, and you are going to ignore how other people feel about that.

For me it isn't really an issue of being "different" from other people.  Are you capable of knowing that someone is suffering deeply and not feel a little bit of that yourself?  Or a little bit of helplessness that you can't do anything?  These "states" Miguel and I are talking about, are just amplified versions of that same sense of connection.  And I don't think I necessarily want to turn it off completely.  I would like to be able to control it a little more though.  I wish that I could pick up on how people are feeling, but not identify with it to the point of losing my own state of emotion or lack-there-of.  Make sense?

Hope this clarifies a little.

Love,
Carson[^]

[miguel]

Hi.
I think not the same thing that carson talks about,but simmilar in some points.
Thanks.

[markern]

The advice I got from my meditation teacher about pciking up on other peoples energy was to truly and minfully realize for myself that this is not my energy. Before I used my skills at controling my energy to block other peoples incoming energy or perhaps even try to transform it for them. But that is tiresome compared to when I realy get that this is not mine and let it go through me. THen it does not bother me anymore. If this becomes a serious problem for you CarZonsi and you don`t manage to deal well with it I can give you his email. He is extreemly wise and knows these things in and out.

[CarsonZi]

Thank you Markern.....I will let you know if this continues to be an ongoing struggle I can't seem to resolve and get his email then.  Thank you for all your wise advice.

Love,
Carson[^]

[Etherfish]

Carson this is something different than i was talking about for miguel. But yes I notice much of the same thing also but I think not as bad. When it starts I turn my attention to something else.

But for miguel, the first part is about wondering if you are gay; I have gone through this same thing. It comes from having a strong feminine side and feeling a kinship with gay guys because they do too. But if you examine it closer, you can tell the difference. it is quite common for a hetero man to have a little gay feeling and not be gay. For instance, I am hetero, but if  guy takes his shirt off who is very buff, my heart will beat faster, and i will feel "Wow, that guy looks good."
But i don't have a sexual attraction to him. I don't like looking at gay porno, and don't get aroused hugging a gay guy. That's how you can tell. I still hug gay guys though, and it doesn't bother me.

The other issue is about needing people too much and trying to be more secure within yourself. Here is a motivation to be tougher with people: It is a huge turn-on for women when you are secure.
It is built into them hormonally to be attracted to secure men.
This is the reason women stay with men who abuse them. It is also the reason women are attracted to men who treat them badly. And it is the reason they are attracted to sports stars, politicians, rich men etc. All the same thing; they think they are more secure with themselves, and so therefore would be better mates for procreating.

Here's the good news: Men like us with a sensitive side are actually much better for women if we learn to be secure with ourselves. We treat them better and understand them better.
The funny thing is, the big ego guys who act so secure are actually less secure than us usually. But they have learned to act secure because they know they are better accepted that way. It's all a big show.
So we need to learn to act that way too for more acceptance, but we can do it for real instead of faking it. We can be secure from a spiritual foundation which is real, and build our personality off of that. Meditation is the foundation, and then you decide what kind of person you want to be and create that.

[miguel]

wow ether![:0]
I felt much identifyed whith your words!
Yes,altought im not gay ,i think that i feel great conection with gays.I think they are more sensible persons and maybe better persons,with a more open hearth.I feel it in that way.
And i like very much girls,but when i look one girls who i like,i get insecure,like asking for her permission for getting "mambo[]" with her.The girl look this as insecurity (it is),and i became his little dog.She rules the situation,in my case,totally.And no kiss,no sex.Only a close and lovely little friend.Andd for me side,i feel agressive "asking" for sex with girls.I feel agressive.I onl can give sex with love,not only sex like other guys do.And maybe this is good (to be a lovely friend),but me,like a man,I feel a castrated boy in that situations.Not complete a man.
It always leaves me with great disatisfaction  and frustrating feeling.
They (girls) dont like for sex ONLY a lovely man.They want the masculine side of men too.Boys with big feminine side atract them,but as a close friend.
And for ther side,when i like a girl,i look around afraid of other guys atracted for that girl.I ask for the permisson of other guys too.
Love[]

[Etherfish]

Yes, sensitive guys should find a woman to love. Casual sex isn't very good anyway, and ultimately a tantric partner is best spiritually.

but just a hint about women:
You should not ask for permission to have sex. Women's minds do not work like ours. Their sexual attraction is a feeling in their body, and they follow their feelings. If you talk about it, it makes an unnatural connection for them and breaks the charm.

You can joke about sex, but don't talk about it being between you and her. Don't act so easy.
Women like you to show them a range of different feelings, not intellectual words like men do.
Then if they are close to you and trying to look sexy, just kiss them without asking, and see where it goes. You have to act like you don't care if they reject you.
And sometimes they will even reject you and not mean no forever. They are testing to see how secure you are, so just ignore it and act normal.

You have to watch women and see how they react to things. They don't think like men at all, and it won't make any sense to you, but you can learn what they want. Just don't expect it to be logical!
They make decisions based on feelings, not logic. And if you try to analyze their feelings with logic, it pushes them away.

[CarsonZi]

Damn women!  Always playing "games"[]

[miguel]

Thanks ether[] []You are answering all my questions perfectly.
im agree with you.

[Etherfish]

I know Carson is joking - none of it is intentional; that's the way women are. It is a perfect compliment to the way men are.

[CarsonZi]

Yes of course.....I am joking.  Hence the face at the end instead of the face I usually do[]

Love,
Carson[^]

[Etherfish]

[Jack]

Guys, help me understand myself here.

When I read this stuff on how we are supposed to be this, do this, women want this, you've got to be this kind of man, etc..

I feel anger.

Like.. why should I contort myself to what a 'woman wants'??

Like, banging head against a brick wall. Sickness in the solar plexus!

[miguel]

Jack,i understand you.I felt all that anger in the past,that toughts...
I dont know what to say to you exactly...
In this world we cant have all that we want in the way we want...we need to open our selfs to others,and sometimes we have to do things we dont like...but they like that things.
they do it too for us...
Im sure you like others doing things for you that maybe they dont like to do in that moment.The market of the world,it works in this way...its not a bad thing,i think...maybe im sure it could be better,but always there is something better,if you can offer it,work for it and the world will be a little a better place.
Look for something that can help you getting free all that anger accumulated in solar plexus.It is caused by past circumstances in our lifes.If you are taking now contact with it,it means the healing process is beginning.Then you will look the world with other pint of view.
There are lot of tools can help us.
Good luck.