Kundalini Overload: Grounding/Front Channel Block

[Anima]

Wow, Jim!

Thanks for the warm welcome. And thanks for this wealth of honest reflection and experience.

Since I have some severe grounding issues, ongoing for a year now, Im going to look into some of this, like tai chi and herbs. I had a dear friend who did Yin style Bau Gua and is very skilled, living in Beijing. He always spoke of chi, which I discounted as superstition. Might this be a helpful practice, or are you familiar?

I also have reservations about spiritual smugness, or pretense of any sort. Maybe because no one can match mine? Im practiced in the tradition of skepticism and critique. Its so exhausting. But I feel what youre saying about "polishing." I met a guy recently who was completely assured of his path for the last two decades. I cant do that. Maybe thats okay and maybe its good, too.

If we speak of infinity, nothing is said. I like your notion of "thinning out." Lord knows I could stand some. We all end, but not in the way we think.

Love and Light

[tonightsthenight]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

quote:Originally posted by lalow33

Hi Jim,

I was doing too much because I had the belief that I needed to meditate at least a certain amount of minutes to get the inner silence.  I realize how ridiculous this is.  DUH!  It's the most obvious thing in the world!  How did I miss it?!

lalow33, that's great. Don't underestimate how significant this is...and how perfect your reaction is!

You'll experience that same "how did I miss this?" feeling over and over as you continue. I experience it frequently, myself. At least, on good days!

I meditated (not AYP) for DECADES thinking my job was to "go deep" and still my mind. I'd peacefully let thoughts drift by until they faded, but, often, I'd receive a deep, jarring mental alert. "Oh, crap, I left the windows open!" or somesuch. And I assumed (again, for decades!) that I needed to redo the meditation...clear the mind, settle in, etc. I thought my meditation had been spoiled by the thought; that I'd been brought back up out of the depths. Finally I realized that, of course, the only disruption was in my letting certain thoughts disrupt. The problem wasn't the thought, it was my reaction. And this was a total "duh", because I'd spent all those years learning to let thoughts sail by; I just didn't realize this meant ALL thoughts, bar none. I didn't understand just how wide a category "thought" was (indeed, over and over, my yoga journey has been about "geez, I didn't understand just how widely that applied!").

There is an epidemic of spiritual practitioners who believe they're  crackerjack at this spirtual stuff. They know what they're doing. They're on the right track, and, really, it's just a matter of further polishing and refining their very capable spirtuality. They tend to get combative at the suggestion that they're deluded about anything. They need to feel "right". Their expectations, alas, are rock solid, and their assumptions (oh, but very SPIRITUAL assumptions!) are unshakable. It's a huge, huge hindrance. If you're not deeply resigned to your essential idiocy, this sure isn't the path for you!

Every glorious opening I've experienced in yoga brought with it a sharp acknowledge of what an idiot I'd previously been. In the beginning, this fueled my smugness, because I assumed that as my pockets of idiocy were revealed, I was becoming more and more "perfected". But, no, I keep finding more and more ways my perspective is stuck and narrowed and self-serving, and that insights which should stretch to Andromeda hardly make it past my own chin. So...I no longer feel like I'm an inch from some supposed finish line, requiring just a smidge more polish and refinement. I EXPECT my expectations and assumptions to be laughably off. And that expectation is super helpful for yoga.

We're all complete idiots, and yoga is the process that shows us this. So if you're not able to accept your own idiocy - even thirst for revelation of your own idiocy - then this is all really just a jerk-off. So this is long-winded congratulations! Cherish the realization of your own delusion and thickness! There's lots more of that to come! So go easy on expectations and self-direction (let go, let mantra!).

And, most of all, don't fall into the trap of thinking that these "aha!" flashes are forging some new, better, wiser you. There's a lot of mythology about yogic perfection (which has its roots in icky Brahmin classism, but that's another story). Here's an insight that's very seldom stated and almost completely missed by nearly everyone: you are deluded thickness through and through. There's no inner gem to polish. Everything that's specifically you is nothing more than fuzzy-headed clenching. That's what you are. That's who you are. Your body and mind are just a cheap, dull contraction (the good stuff never seems to come from you, right? Epiphany, inspiration, eurekas all seem to come from "out of nowhere"). Remove the fuzzy-headed clenching, and literally nothing remains. So the only thing to do is to let go, falling backwards into the vast What Is. Trust that you'll float. It's ok!

I realize I will offend some readers by my statement that "you are deluded thickness through and through".  I get into trouble with that sort of statement here because folks want to feel smart and spiritually capable. Not me. I do yoga 'cuz I know for a fact that I'm a deluded idiot. And I get the feeling that you, like me, are inclined to welcome and cherish revelation of that same essential fact.

Most people do yoga to feel smart. A few do it to feel stupid. Welcome to the stupid pool!

I love it ahahahaha!

Yep another idiot here. I'm more sure of my idiocy than ever. Maybe that's the measurement of progress in yoga?

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by Anima Deorum
Since I have some severe grounding issues, ongoing for a year now, Im going to look into some of this, like tai chi and herbs. I had a dear friend who did Yin style Bau Gua and is very skilled, living in Beijing. He always spoke of chi, which I discounted as superstition. Might this be a helpful practice, or are you familiar?

Not familiar. If you have a practice, like AYP, I'd suggest you be very hesitant about taking on a whole new practice. You know what they say about one deep well rather than 10 shallow ones. But tai chi (and other chi-gong type practices), on its own (i.e. not buying into the whole program) shouldn't interfere, and, yes, will help with grounding. Tai chi is what Yogani resorted to when his overload got bad.

As for discounting chi as superstition, chi is pretty much the same as prana/kundalini. If you think all that "energy" stuff is hogwash, then what exactly are do you consider yourself overloaded with? God? Love? Bhakti? Whatever you call it, that's the thing they're talking about. Though different traditions have different models and mappings.

quote:I also have reservations about spiritual smugness, or pretense of any sort. Maybe because no one can match mine? Im practiced in the tradition of skepticism and critique. Its so exhausting. But I feel what youre saying about "polishing." I met a guy recently who was completely assured of his path for the last two decades. I cant do that. Maybe thats okay and maybe its good, too.  

Yeah, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm completely assured of my path. I just have no freaking idea of what will happen as I follow it.

Any of the established paths are good. Picking/choosing and trying to figure it out and decide what's "bullsh*t", etc., is just mind candy. The antidote to mind candy addiction is to simmer down, shaddup, and just do a daily practice, any daily practice (I like AYP). Do it as blithely as you brush your teeth. And let the cosmic barber trim your hair. But let him move your head around according to his volition, not yours. Don't try to anticipate his moves. Don't imagine you grok or own or direct the hair cut. He may cut off your entire head. Fine! One day you may be the scalp, another day the razor, another day the fluff on the floor. No need to model it, "get your mind around it", or any of that. Stay stupid and I guarantee that presumption will be proven correct! We all think we know where this path leads. The more certain you are, the more assured you will be of never being surprised or having your perspective transformed. The path doesn't matter. That's just the roadway. I'd suggest you pick and stick. But from there on out, let go and let it happen.

quote:If we speak of infinity, nothing is said. I like your notion of "thinning out." Lord knows I could stand some.

That's just mind once again trying to coopt and control the experience. Remember the bugs bunny episode where the gangster says he's going to take him for a ride, and Bugs says "A ride! Oh, great! I love RIDES!" and giddily puts on his riding outfit, etc etc? That's the mind's reaction upon hearing you're going to do yoga to get beyond mind. The mind says "Goody!" and then turns the whole thing into an emulation....a mind f***. That's why sticking to a long term practice is helpful. Less mind feeding. Just do the practices, period.

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:. I'm more sure of my idiocy than ever. Maybe that's the measurement of progress in yoga?

If you start feeling smart, that's the sign that you need to let go some more. And, as you do so, if you find cool stuff popping out of you, like from out of nowhere, don't presume you own it. Don't feel like you need to affect modesty, just understand that as you take credit it stops dead.

The good stuff flows through you from god knows where. Your you-ness is exactly the thing that's always been blocking all that. Nothing to do but let go.

[Anima]

Interesting thoughts, Jim- Thank you.

[SeySorciere]

Jim, I needed that - Thank you!


Sey

[tonightsthenight]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

quote:. I'm more sure of my idiocy than ever. Maybe that's the measurement of progress in yoga?

If you start feeling smart, that's the sign that you need to let go some more. And, as you do so, if you find cool stuff popping out of you, like from out of nowhere, don't presume you own it. Don't feel like you need to affect modesty, just understand that as you take credit it stops dead.

The good stuff flows through you from god knows where. Your you-ness is exactly the thing that's always been blocking all that. Nothing to do but let go.

+1!

[snowtrees]

Hi Jim,

First I'd like to say thank you for this information. Not only has it helped me but also numerous others I'm sure. I hope you still read this post. I'd like to share my experience with you and humbly ask for some advise.

To summarize, I focused too much on the third eye and it wasn't a balanced, equanimous attention, more forced and sporadic than anything. Then at some point I realized my stomach was tight,  I released the tension and a lot of sensations were released, I became agitated and anxious and felt like I couldn't control where my attention went, it went straight to the third eye. That was about a year and half ago, I couldn't feel my body and felt stuck, particularly in my head, I couldn't concentrate on anything for the longest time. I had lots of pressure/bubbly sensations on the top of my head, which would consume my attention. It was hard to allow it to just be. I eventually went to an acupuncture practitioner and he noticed my neck (below the base of the skull) was super tight and once he pricked it I felt a rush of consciousness (best way to describe it) and the pressure was no more, at least on the right side, but it continued on the left side but it wasn't overwhelming any longer. Since then I now can feel my body again and feel a continuous flow of consciousness,  again for a lack of better term.

I have no urge to focus on the third eye any longer when I meditate, I have a measure of control over that and last time i meditated (breathing, focusig on the tactile sensation within the nose) i noticed my face and particularly the jaw was in constant tension mode. Long story short i stumbled on this topic and I tried opening the bottom of the throat and felt a good amount of energy flow down, it was a foreign feeling but not "scary". When I do try to meditate I feel the bottom of my jaw full of a bubbly energy (which pulls my jaw down, it seems to be stuck there, right?) Also my youngest seems to be constantly moving/ tense when I dilate my throat or try to focus, i have to be mindful of it and consciously relax it when I focus.

And like you, my stomach engaged again, it had been getting bigger even though I exercise well and eat well, vegetarian diet. I always felt like I couldn't engage my stomach, it always trembled when I tried to do a sit up or something along those lines.

I guess the point to this explanation is to ask what you thought of me continuing my current routine of mediation and if I have a block on the back of my neck as well? The habit of tensing when I meditate is there but as reduced if I am continuously mindful of that happening.I also practice a body scan meditation, just moving my attention around the body equally with no preference. The bubbly pressure on the top of my neck is still there but barely compared to before.

Ps could you explain the throat dilation in a different way if possible?

Lots of metta my friend.

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:To summarize, I focused too much on the third eye

Lots of people do this. The trick isn't to focus more skillfully, but to stop focusing. Just do your practices dumbly, passively, unaspirationally, and let it all go and do what it does. And, when you're not doing practices, get out of your head and your yoga and your energy and engage with the world. Talk to people. Do stuff. Walk. Work. Don't languish in this stuff. If you've read what I've written in this thread, that's the essence of my advice. Try it!


 

quote:It was hard to allow it to just be.

Well, that's timely. I recently posted this. It might be helpful to consider this "just be" perspective more fully, elusive though I know it can be. It sounds like you're starting to come around to this conclusion, and my suggestion is that you apply it liberally.

quote:I have no urge to focus on the third eye any longer when I meditate, I have a measure of control over that and last time i meditated (breathing, focusig on the tactile sensation within the nose) i noticed my face and particularly the jaw was in constant tension mode.

All this stuff you're doing: it's not AYP. Nowhere in AYP does it say to "get a measure of control" over anything, to focus on tactile sensations, or to notice your face and gauge tension.  If you're an AYP practictioner, I'd strongly suggest you reread the lesson for meditation and whatever other practices you're doing so you can strip off the very many barnacles that have glommed on to this very very simple practice.

 

quote:Long story short i stumbled on this topic and I tried opening the bottom of the throat and felt a good amount of energy flow down, it was a foreign feeling but not "scary". When I do try to meditate I feel the bottom of my jaw full of a bubbly energy (which pulls my jaw down, it seems to be stuck there, right?) Also my youngest seems to be constantly moving/ tense when I dilate my throat or try to focus, i have to be mindful of it and consciously relax it when I focus.

More of same.

Listen, as someone who started as a hatha yogi, and has lots of very subtle body awareness and an inveterate impulse to self-adjust, I sympathize. But yoga is "Thy Will Be Done".  It's about letting the Cosmic Barber trim your hair, not about endless tinkering. I mean - if you want to self-tinker, god bless, enjoy. But you'll keep experiencing energy weirdness. Why not just let the practices carry you....and, otherwise, live life in full engagement? Less you in all this might be helpful.

We embark on spiritual work, presumably, because, to some extent, we realize the limitations of our mind's desire to control our outer lives, our outer world, our narratives. We achieve some measure of surrender. And then many of us try to apply the same mental effort to controlling our inner lives, our inner world, and our energy. It's the same error, and it WILL lead to overloading and energy problems because you are not the best architect of your energy and your surrender (any more than you are the best architect of your unfolding life narrative). Why not try leaving it to your inner guru?

[snowtrees]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

quote:To summarize, I focused too much on the third eye

Lots of people do this. The trick isn't to focus more skillfully, but to stop focusing. Just do your practices dumbly, passively, unaspirationally, and let it all go and do what it does. And, when you're not doing practices, get out of your head and your yoga and your energy and engage with the world. Talk to people. Do stuff. Walk. Work. Don't languish in this stuff. If you've read what I've written in this thread, that's the essence of my advice. Try it!

...

 Why not try leaving it to your inner guru?

You are right, I have had a hard time letting go and engaging. And more lately, as small as that voice is, I'm starting to listen. I thank you for your advise and if I may ask, as I do not have access to a Chinese herbalist in my region, what is it exactly that you get from the herbalist? I am going to drop my spiritual practices for the time being and just work on grounding myself with your recommendations.

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:as small as that voice is, I'm starting to listen

That's clear from your posting. If it wasn't, I'd have tried to make the case more gently. But it was obvious you needed to reminded of something you already knew rather than convinced of something you don't!

At some point, you'll notice something astounding: nothing needs to change. Nothing needs to adjust in the whole universe. The only problem in any of this is the erroneous (and tenacious) conviction that stuff needs to change and be adjusted. That's the point of my poem, which I linked to above. It's a question of perspective.

And it's absolutely hilarious to think that one can change and adjust one's way to that awareness. (It's one of the cosmic jokes, and smart yogis never quite get those jokes - which is why I strive to keep feeling stupid...a stance which experience keeps proving correct.)

As for dropping practices:  AYP strips away tons of complication, leaving practitioners with three stripped-down, ultra-simple, plain-as-daylight instructions that are all that's needed to work one's sadhana:

1. don't stop practicing,
2. let the experiences be,
3. if you run into trouble, scale back.

And the funny thing is, even this seems devilishly hard for most people to handle. About 75% of the postings in this forum involve people needing to be told not to quit, or to let experiences be, or to self-pace. It's like we read those instructions (repeated ad infinitum in the lessons) and don't believe we need to actually apply them.

Hey, quit if you want. It's your choice. My suggestion, if you're doing AYP, is that you follow AYP and scale back. If you've scaled back and it's still not enough, scale back some more. And more. And more, if necessary. But don't quit. Don't ever quit.

As for herbs specifically, my suggestion is that you don't self-prescribe, and don't take what other people take. The herbs were a very small part of what I suggested. The largest part of what I suggested was for you to stop fiddling and fretting (all this compulsive attention on your overload is causing overload). This is another instruction you clearly understand yet seem reluctant to implement.

[Kduzza]

Hi there Jim.

Firstly, I must thank you for your input on this subject! I've been having trouble with a lot of head and neck pressure, and it's left me often feeling spaced out and unable to fully express myself as I used to.. I've had this problem for around 6 months now, when I just completely ignore the pressure, it seems to just rest where the head and neck meet, and prevents me from being able to turn my head smoothly, so I knew something somewhat practical had to be done to correct this.
The pressure  moves around sometimes to its own accord, and sometimes it goes to where I place my conscious attention in the the head or neck.
 Before finding this forum, (I found it 3 days ago
Searching for some help with this Kundalini imbalance) I had experiments with trying to guide the energy back down the spine, down to the legs and out the feet, I had some relief from the pressure, and for two days thought I had gotten rid of it. However, it returned but at a less greater magnitude.
Usually I remain abstinent as when I ejaculate I feel largely unmotivated and lathargic. However I have noted that ejaculating does relieve the pressure a little, although I think the blocks are still there so I'm not sure whether I should continue to ejaculate, as when I do I feel very lethargic and unmotivated.

When I consciously place my attention on the under chin and throat area and relax it physically, I have experienced somewhat of an opening but it seems to close again the day after. I have just become aware of the 'throat dilution' technique you propose, however I am still a little unsure of how to do this. Am I effectively moving my Adam's apple down, whilst performing the beggining of a yawn?

And finally, I'm going to try craniosacral therapy as I have heard that it can help with restoring the natural flow of the body and is good for working with head pressure, do you have any experience or opinions on this?

P.s, apologies for my layman terminology, I'm not so familiar with the chakra system and so on!

Thank you

[Kduzza]

Again, I'm not really aware of anyone else that i can speak to about this issue, so any pointers are greatly appreciated.

[jeff]

Hi Kduzza,

I do not mean to intrude in your question for Jim, but as your have described, energy follows your attention. Things like spaciness can often be from keeping to much attention in your head once the energy has started flowing. Signs of pressure are often issues or fears stored in those areas of the energy body that need to be faced and let go.

If you are looking for a suggestion,  maybe try to place your attention lower in the body for a while. The heart or stomach can be helpful. Also, going even lower and placing it in the ground below your feet, can be a very powerful grounding technique.

Again, sorry for the interruption.

Best wishes,
Jeff

[Kduzza]

Hi Jeff

Thank you for your reply! I have recently tried stomping my feet a lot, which seems to help to ground the energy somewhat, and helps me focus more on my feet and legs, rather than the head pressure, so what your describing Is helpful And you don't need to be sorry! Any help and opinions with this is greatly appreciated!