Lying

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

I'm beginning to think what i was talking about is not lying. There is never shame or guilt, whereas I am super sensitive to such things.
I think what I am doing is pushing my negative tendencies aside for a moment for the sake of others.

In effect, lying to yourself, which is the same thing. You judge yourself negative and become opposite for the sake of yourself.

There is no positive or negative, only carrying out an action which feels inherently against your true nature. If it's against your TRUE nature then it must be a lie because it is false.

Neither can you do anything for the sake of others, although it seems like it. You do it for your own sake, to avoid conflict, keep things calm, feel good about yourself etc.

[Etherfish]

Karl wrote:
"There is no positive or negative, only carrying out an action which feels inherently against your true nature. If it's against your TRUE nature then it must be a lie because it is false."

I think my habitual negative judgement is against my true nature. So stopping that is stopping lying!
It feels that way, anyway. Sometimes doing what is easiest and seems natural is not what is best, especially if you have an addictive personality.
So rather than following what seems easy, I found that watching how other people react makes me better at communicating.
This is after many years of constant rejection, weird looks, people being disgusted, misunderstanding what I say, and self destructive behavior.

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish
I think my habitual negative judgement is against my true nature. So stopping that is stopping lying!
It feels that way, anyway.

Then you have answered your own question.

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish Sometimes doing what is easiest and seems natural is not what is best, especially if you have an addictive personality.
So rather than following what seems easy, I found that watching how other people react makes me better at communicating.
This is after many years of constant rejection, weird looks, people being disgusted, misunderstanding what I say, and self destructive behavior.

Does this clarify things for you ?

[Etherfish]

No, the path never seems clear. But I have found ways to know how to follow the right path, and just follow those self-made rules! That is working very well.

[Victor]

Well, lying has nothing to do with right or wrong or ones true nature or not. Lying is the telling of fiction as if it were fact. There rest is how you feel about it or interpret it. In that case ones personal judgements about the reason for the lie or its necesity are really the issue

[Etherfish]

Sometimes it is a function of culture also. For instance, in areas like Texas, where there are large open spaces, and cowboys used to live there, they would sit around campfires and tell stories at night. The stories would be stretched as they were told over and over, and they were modified for the best entertainment value. The people who were the best story tellers were loved for being entertaining. The stories were called "tall tales" because they were known to be stretched. Now that place has been filled by movies.
Descendents of these cowboys have often inherited the ability to tell tall tales. They are always told as if they really happened that way.

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

No, the path never seems clear. But I have found ways to know how to follow the right path, and just follow those self-made rules! That is working very well.

There is no path to follow, you have found that following your set of rules has made things better and that is all we can do. Only to make things better for ourselves.

It seems like you have overcome a lot of challenges and continue to do so. Much respect for having that level of tenacity and strength.

[Etherfish]

Thanks Karl,
No wonder I can't see the way ahead! But anyway, it is working fine. The weird thing is that my way seems to be different than anyone else.
As i get older it's nice to know what I can handle and what to stay away from so my life is improving without the  huge emotional and spiritual mistakes of my youth.

[sagebrush]

I have been contemplating this lying topic.

I am a liar and I have lied. It could be over something big in my personal/spiritual life or something like to the IRS.

I feel like a truthful person, but not really as I evaluate actions.

Just in a recent moment, as a sister is departing to journey home to the Carolinas from a four day visit, I was thinking of the closure. So as I was in the bathroom, I thought well I will tell her goodbye and give her a hug.

Well right then I knew I was lying. I didn't want to give her a hug. Then I thought how would she feel about a hug?
So I am making myself do some action I don't think that i really want to do and is not genuine.

I went ahead and created a bit of humor by announcing that we needed a group hug before she left, she stated she doesn't do group hugs. But I went over a gave her a hug anyway by myself. She did one of those barely grasping hugs...and meanwhile I give her a big squeeze and start  really swaying in it....in the end she was laughing and the funny thing is that I felt uplifted a bit in what transpired.

I would not want to skim over this topic. I am glad someone has brought this topic up and at times I am evaluating at my discomfort about my lies,when, where, whom,how and why and watching thru out the day.

This is all I could share now.


Maybe I needed the hug after all.

[Chiron]

There are negative effects on the vishudda chakra directly.  And i heard lying strengthens tamas guna, slowing the speed of one's karmic rebound cycle.  Delaying purification and reducing one's ability to percieve the truth.  

That would be why even small lies do not sit well with our internal self, and intuitively we know it, otherwise we wouldn't be worried about it.

There are no set rules, but a good guideline is this - whenever the desire to lie arises, ask yourself a question - would i like to be lied to in such circumstances? and, How can i say it honestly without hurting the other person?

Also when we create goals for ourselves, it is important to persevere to the end and achieve them, otherwise that's another form of lying.

[Chiron]

i lied to her