difficulties getting close

[emc]

Hi solo and all others who have given their time and answers! Thank you! This topic really has gotten me into some self-inquiry...

Katrine

quote:there is an undercurrent of...a pattern of expectation. As if the setting you are describing above ..is geared towards making love....that creates a fear of "failure in relationship"....when this is cannot be met

Hm... the first part of this we have been discussing many times by now... the attraction to make physical love between man and woman - is it an expectation of the mind or a deeper evolutionary pull? We have slightly different ways of expressing what that is about. It's true there is a deep inner longing of some kind to "close the cirquit" as I express it. I admit the interpretation of that longing is based on Bernie's insights, which I have found to be very true so far. Even realized persons are usually still attracted to a partner, whether they choose to go celibate or not, the attraction is there. Yogani mentions it in his tantra book, woman is here to draw the seed out of the man and even the most skilled yogi will feel that attraction. That attraction is very deep, I think. How to distinguish that deeper longing from the mind's sexual desire? Don't know. I just know my longing for "normal sex" has been gone for many years now. (Having travelled the journey through
- lots of experimental sex before awakening to spirituality
- on awakening beginning with quite advanced energetic tantric practices - having actual orgasms and "wild sex" on inner connection with the man even on longer distances
- to being a buzzing field reacting with this "awareness field lovemaking" to any man on the street having the right frequency
- to starting to sense the difference between sharing that field of "general love" with someone to actually feeling the attraction pull towards a particular man who is "calling me" into something that has a greater potential of union in Oneness...)

The other part of it, that the relationship depends on that lovemaking to occur otherwise it would be a failure. I don't believe that is true, no... but I'm questioning if I'm still in any rush to end going the whole way...? Impatience is one of my known traits. Would I be able to, as in Yogani's novel, wait for 7 years to finally get there? Perhaps there is impatience here that I'm not fully aware of. I'll keep looking into that one! Thanks!

quote:So....if source is saying "no" to that kind of stimulation right now for you...then it probably has to do with the need for balance. The need to ground yourself. The need to cultivate silence....more than conductivity.

This is the interpretation that lies closest to my own. Then again, it's a bit weird here, because... I wouldn't know how to cultivate silence WITHOUT having more energies coming with it, you see... Meditation on I AM brings up both here... Self-inquiry brings up both... Mindfulness and practicing short moments of awareness gets my nose burning... haha How do you cultivate stillness without energies? I wouldn't even know how to do it the other way round either - cultivate energies without stillness, because tantric energies does not occur without stillness here... It takes place due to going more and more still and less and less mindy... I honestly don't understand how others manage... So your next suggestion is a bit difficult:

quote:If you are with a man with a mature level of inner silence, can you not be open with him regarding this? When the first pull happens....have you tried being absolutely still with it?.....To sit with it and not react with a "going into the motions of making love"...(physically or otherwise)?

Of course there's always an open communication about this. Hey, I'm a teacher... can't stop! I'm not sure I understand what you mean with 'motions of making love'. Energetically the love is already happening all over the place - it is what is - and the physical motion is so far only getting close to each other and hug and kiss. There's yet no intention of getting to bed... I can try to be still with it, inside and outside, but... the stiller I get, the more I'm prone to be helplessly swooshed around by 'something' (yes, it has crossed my mind that it would be something else than Da Force - an entity, an alien, a master, Bernie messing around, but hopefully it is THAT ). This latest time it pulled me back with force. It's like this master in the video below - he is just playing around with people - in a similar way it feels the invisible Force is playing around with this body like that... more so the stiller I get, the more I actively surrender. It's a mystery.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6KxA6H4aUg

 

quote:If the attraction between you two is springing from inner silence...then to commune for days(or weeks and months even) and not make love...is something to look into.

Yes, I'd love that. But a man triggering me so much would only be able to commune with me in physical appearance without making love (which seems to be impossible anyway) one or two days every third week or once a month... else I'd be in severe overload. That was the thoughts I expressed in my first post... would take a man of great love to be patient with that... I definitely think it's time for me to go celibate and not even thinking of getting close to a man until this has settled. LOL!

Christi, thanks for sharing. I think I would flip severely around you as well!

Etherfish,

quote:When i was younger I used to spend a lot of time with girlfriends holding and kissing with all clothes on, for weeks before there was any sex. I liked that a lot better.
Maybe if you found a tantric guy who would agree to that it would work.

Yes, thank you, that would absolutely be the way to go. Hey, am I not the one here on forum that has promoted karezza in every single post about lovemaking and is constantly referring to www.reuniting.info It's from that platform I'm already coming. So that's why it's very interesting to even more deeply inquire if there's any hasty rush or impatience in me that is playing out now, or if it's perhaps purely a matter of self-pacing as Anthem points out.

Cosmic

quote:This is wonderful news, isn't it? I mean, all the "wrong" guys are automatically weeded out, right?

Haha, that's a great way of seeing it! Thanks for a wonderful post! I do believe you might be right!

Christiane

quote:She's an international renowned spiritual figure especially in the arab countries..
I won't go into details concerning this "merging" with her energies, but all I can say is that, for the first time, I experienced the very thing I was always longing for through all my sexual relationships: I experienced the state of no mind, wholeness, ecstasy, and non-duality, only through meditating next to her, with her hand lying on my thigh..
And since last week, years of my old attachment to "lovemaking" as a "must" or a "natural mean" to reach ecstasy and wholeness simply faded away..

Thank you so much for sharing! It's beautiful! I do agree with you, lovemaking is not the only way to reach higher realms. It's one way. Being with a master as you describe is another very quick way! Now, that's one of the reasons I go to retreats with Bernie... it's weeks of being there... and it stays for weeks or months afterwards... Meditation is another way... AYP brings us there as well...

Hey, all! Thank you very much and much love to all of you! More input is very welcome! I sincerely appreciate you being here to support the journey!

[Katrine]

Hi emc

 

quote:Hm... the first part of this we have been discussing many times by now... the attraction to make physical love between man and woman - is it an expectation of the mind or a deeper evolutionary pull?

I'd say it's both. It is definitely an evolutionary pull....without it...procreation would stop Also....when one is in a relationship of any kind...it is an evolution....it holds a vast potential for inner growth....no matter what kind of relation it is...be it partnership, friendship, kinship....whatever it is...it will bring one closer to union.....mostly through finding out what one is not...but also what both indeed is.
As for mind....anything that is previously experienced (mentally, emotionaly, physically)...if either feared or desired....(identified with these).... becomes an expectation....


 

quote:It's true there is a deep inner longing of some kind to "close the cirquit" as I express it. I admit the interpretation of that longing is based on Bernie's insights, which I have found to be very true so far

Yes.....have these insights made you calmer? Here...when something is found to be true....the residue of truth is always increased calmness.......something is let go of. And in the letting go....there is completeness. Wholeness. It is a paradox that....
Is there a..... relaxation.....because you have found his insights to be true?  

 

quote:woman is here to draw the seed out of the man and even the most skilled yogi will feel that attraction. That attraction is very deep, I think. How to distinguish that deeper longing from the mind's sexual desire? Don't know. I just know my longing for "normal sex" has been gone for many years now.

Yes....the longing from heart is in my experience a lot stronger than the sexual desire. But I have found that this too needs to be transcended.  I therefore don't find it very compasionate towards myself...to be locked in a cycle where the "closing of the circuit" can only best happen through joining with another human being.  In fact.....here.....it is the total acceptance that this will never happen according to my desire.....the completely digested knowingness that noone out there can "take me home" on my behalf....the letting go of that which I love....it is this that ...more than anything....pulls the plug from the fan that is the mind......

It is just like the desperate longing for THAT.....the wanting of the loving light......it is the letting go of the wanting........ that brings the light......it comes of itself then....this is the experience...again and again. It is the same with man....if he is totally let go of....then he is here....also when he isn't.

But to let go of the wanting.....doesn't happen overnight (at least not here)......and the marriage I was in for 21 years....it...more than anything......grinded that wanting down to smaller and smaller bits and pieces. Only to piece it back together when I fell in love .....and had to go through the same undoing. So in that manner too...yes....any relationship is a goldmine. But not if the mind is allowed to own it

 

quote:I wouldn't know how to cultivate silence WITHOUT having more energies coming with it, you see

I totally relate to this, emc This has always been the case here too.....it has been a challenge for years. But eventually....(I am stubborn as you know...so this took time) another way of cultivating inner silence emerged. Whenever a "wanting" happens.....it is possible to say "no" to it (it is this i mean when saying "to sit with it and not react"). It is possible to "look it into oblivion". Not with force......with love. It is like a firm but loving intention to serve stillness....not the wanting in the heart (the motion of wanting is what I mean with 'motions of making love')..... If the intention to serve silence is the strongest intention in heart....then I have found that silence always "wins"....it conquers any desire. If the desire is very strong....I pray inside...."please help me to replace this with you".....and then a letting go....and then the "you" is what I am again  Lately...the prayer is wordless...it is enough to stop....look....and then the letting go...and then I am.

And there are other ways too.....to cultivate inner silence.....to not having it ones own way.....
Karma yoga f.ex......

 

quote:Energetically the love is already happening all over the place - it is what is - and the physical motion is so far only getting close to each other and hug and kiss. There's yet no intention of getting to bed... I can try to be still with it, inside and outside, but... the stiller I get, the more I'm prone to be helplessly swooshed around by 'something'

Yes...because the wanting in the heart is there.....
This is not easy, emc.....here it is very painful to let go of that wanting.....or rather...it is very painful to resist the letting go of it....it has been one of the hardest lessons so far. But once the letting go happens...everything is harmonious and nothing is wrong. I am complete and whole.

And so are you...behind all the "swooshing around" Take heart...it is not an alien...and it is not Bernie...it is THAT


Gosh...it's late....got to find my pillow....

[emc]

Hi Katrine,

quote:It is definitely an evolutionary pull....without it...procreation would stop

Perhaps you're joking here, but just to make sure to others, with evolutionary I mean evolution of consciousness, not the continued multiplying of individuals of the species. As we know, humans nowadays rarely make love to make babies. There's a much deeper spiritual pull than purely physical, and another than what's possible in kinship or friendship. Otherwise I do agree that inner growth is possible in all relationships.

quote:Yes.....have these insights made you calmer? Here...when something is found to be true....the residue of truth is always increased calmness.......something is let go of. And in the letting go....there is completeness. Wholeness. It is a paradox that....
Is there a..... relaxation.....because you have found his insights to be true?

Are you kidding? It's a... what was the word David_obsidian taught me... a no-brainer. Did you drown in love when meeting Amma? We know when we meet Truth and Love, don't we? The inner calmness, wholeness and absolute clarity growing from having been with Bernie for these years is beyond words.

quote:I therefore don't find it very compasionate towards myself...to be locked in a cycle where the "closing of the circuit" can only best happen through joining with another human being. In fact.....here.....it is the total acceptance that this will never happen according to my desire.....the completely digested knowingness that noone out there can "take me home" on my behalf....

Ah, I see something now... I think... You see, "the closing of the circuit" is not at all in any way related to a belief that someone out there can "take me home" or that it's necessary for realizing Truth. They are not related. Are you assuming I am assuming a man is necessary for me to "take me home" and "close the circuit"? I sense it might be possible there's a slight misperception here.

quote:It is just like the desperate longing for THAT.....the wanting of the loving light......it is the letting go  of the wanting........ that brings the light......it comes of itself then....this is the experience...again and again. It is the same with man....if he is totally let go of....then he is here....also when he isn't.

Yes. It is the same way here! Beautiful, isn't it? There's only longing for an outer man when it's forgotten who He really is! I'm going through cycle after cycle to learn this letting go as well on every area, not only with man! As soon as something is seen as "on the outside" or "in the future" it's painful. And also to turn the "wanting" into "serving" as you so beautifully describe. I'm lucky, though, to have a body that does karma yoga before my mind is even aware of it happening, and when mind becomes aware it's too late - the serving has already taken place. But there is a lot of forgetting here still...

quote:Yes...because the wanting in the heart is there.....
This is not easy, emc.....here it is very painful to let go of that wanting.....or rather...it is very painful to resist the letting go of it....it has been one of the hardest lessons so far. But once the letting go happens...everything is harmonious and nothing is wrong. I am complete and whole.

The "wanting in the heart"... not sure what you mean here either. Are you talking about bhakti? Finally letting go of bhakti?

Phew, thanks for reassuring me it's not an alien... I thought Hathor might have gotten me there... *kidding*

[Christi]

Hi emc,

 

quote:
Christi, thanks for sharing. I think I would flip severely around you as well!  

I wouldn't let you anywhere near me... for your own sake.

Only kidding! You are welcome any time.

Oh, and I can confirm it's not an alien. These responses are quite normal when kundalini is in full swing. I have known quite a few cases where people had to avoid sex altogether because the energy stimulated pushed them too far into inbalance.

The good news is that the inner lovemaking can become as beautiful (and eventually more beautiful) than the outer lovemaking, so it doesn't remain an issue for long. Oh, and also the inner fires, and spontaneous kriyas eventually subside, so you get to chose to engage in external lovemaking again if it still attracts you.

But I am sure you know that already.

Christi

[emc]

It would be a hoot meeting you, Christi!

Mm... I'm leaning towards seeing it only as you describe - it's too much kundalini right now, and I'm to stay out of contact with men for as long as needed. (Just to point it out - I've never believed it was an alien - it was intended to be a bit of humour there! It's That behind everything, always.)

Gosh, I'm waiting for the day when the kriyas end... 3,5 years of vigorous kriyas... must be a gigantic garbage dump in there since the energies are on full gas and has been since the start and there's still so much blockages...

[Katrine]

Hi emc

quote:quote:
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Yes.....have these insights made you calmer? Here...when something is found to be true....the residue of truth is always increased calmness.......something is let go of. And in the letting go....there is completeness. Wholeness. It is a paradox that....
Is there a..... relaxation.....because you have found his insights to be true?
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Are you kidding? It's a... what was the word David_obsidian taught me... a no-brainer. Did you drown in love when meeting Amma?  We know when we meet Truth and Love, don't we? The inner calmness, wholeness and absolute clarity growing from having been with Bernie for these years is beyond words.

Sorry if I offered you a "no-brainer" emc.......that was certainly not the intention here It was the  "It's true there is a deep inner longing of some kind to "close the cirquit" as I express it. I admit the interpretation of that longing is based on Bernie's insights, which I have found to be very true so far" that I mistakenly read as you meaning that it took joining with a man for you to best grow that way. Bernie speaks a lot about man and woman.....so you are absolutely right.....I assumed you ment that a man is essential for your spiritual growth. Sorry for that misunderstanding

 

quote:quote:
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It is just like the desperate longing for THAT.....the wanting of the loving light......it is the letting go of the wanting........ that brings the light......it comes of itself then....this is the experience...again and again. It is the same with man....if he is totally let go of....then he is here....also when he isn't.
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 Yes. It is the same way here! Beautiful, isn't it? There's only longing for an outer man when it's forgotten who He really is!

Yes. It is very beautiful
Here....if there is longing for an outer man....it is because I have forgotten who I really am .

 

quote:The "wanting in the heart"... not sure what you mean here either. Are you talking about bhakti? Finally letting go of bhakti?

The wanting in the heart is an emotional pull to that which i am attracted to. Not sexual desire...not bhakti....but the kind of pull that leads to attachment and restlessness in heart. It is like the difference between a peak orgasm and a valley orgasm. The first is a build up that requieres movement...the second is coming out of total stillness.

When the heart is calm...the love comes of itself....whether man is here...or not.


I may have been totally off here, emc.....regarding what you are describing in this post. If so...I apologize. Just disregard it
It is just that the "difficulties getting close".....when the kriyas act up like that in the described setting....it made me wonder if maybe the "need for a man".....the emotional need.... had to be transcended.

emc to Christi:

 

quote:Gosh, I'm waiting for the day when the kriyas end... 3,5 years of vigorous kriyas... must be a gigantic garbage dump in there since the energies are on full gas and has been since the start and there's still so much blockages...

Well.....the size of the "dump" matters not ...*LOL*....and yours is certainly not worse than any others. Including this stubborn Norwegian.  And who are we to assess, right? A lot of noise and scenery is just that.  

Luckily......there can be many enlightened moments....no matter how stubborn...how big a garbage dump......it matters not.....in a moment of truth

I wish you a full circle of the moment, emc

[emc]

Yes,

quote:Originally posted by Katrine
I mistakenly read as you meaning that it took joining with a man for you to best grow that way. Bernie speaks a lot about man and woman.....so you are absolutely right.....I assumed you ment that a man is essential for your spiritual growth. Sorry for that misunderstanding

 

No need to be sorry. I can understand where it comes from. I'm not always easy to read since I jump from high to low in a very chaotic way... Deep insights mixed with shallow mind... former realizations and awakenings described from a present mind state... not easy to tell where I'm coming from. I do appreciate your input - it almost always puts me in touch with something important, although not always in the way you suggest.

What I clearly SEE/KNOW/AM when being with Bernie (and merging with his consciousness so to speak), is that he - as most masters - talks about That/pure awareness, how it becomes two - formless consciousness (He) appearing as form/existence (She) and how that duality is manifested as Man and Woman, the two genders on Earth. I see the pulsation of consciousness wanting to go Home and rest, going towards Zero all the time (BEING), and the consciousness coming out from Source constantly manifesting New in every Now, going out in duality as Life (BECOMING). The pulse is there, also after realization. The pulse out is in Yogani's words the "outpouring divine love", manifesting new forms in existence in ways we hardly comprehend since everything is ultimately One. (Think Chaos theory - one butterfly flapping it's wing may create a tsunami somewhere else. One being pouring out love may affect spreading of diseases, wars etc etc far away from us.)

The tantric practice of meeting in flesh for the non-realized beings is one of many ways to Go Home. However, going Home or even Being Home doesn't close the circuit, the way I see it - we can be Home as That and be very happy and never make love again, but the circuit is not closed then...(possibly this is not at all what Bernie says, but my faulty idea from a distorted mind... it's just what I see...) it's not closed until conscious matter meets conscious matter in Flesh in duality. There is tremendous power in the penis and the vagina also after realization - as long as we have a body - and since the journey has no end, we can always go deeper through the tantric path... the pulse of consciousness going Home is ever deepening - it won't be "satisfied" until the Whole Existence is Conscious so that the Two can Go Home fully and totally - that's where Consciousness is going... (Yogani says sometimes that a realized being knows it's not fully realized until all beings are realized). And the pulse OUT from Source again... the waves in consciousness affecting the whole creation and most certainly other beings is enormous when closing that circuit - imagine the pulse out, the outpouring love, the evolution of Consciousness in Existence when top of penis meets entrance of the womb and symbolically closes the circuit on every level... So One couple making physical True Love (conscious lovemaking) in flesh CREATES enormous things in that symbolical act of lovemaking... Stillness in Action... The continuous tantric meeting is about Consciousness evolving... eternally... Manifested individualized beings making love is a very powerful tool for consciousness to fulfill it's purpose and passion... The view (whether correct or not) I have after having spent time with Bernie is quite far from my personal need to go home... It's about the New Earth being Created by That.  
 

quote:The wanting in the heart is an emotional pull to that which i am attracted to. Not sexual desire...not bhakti....but the kind of pull that leads to attachment and restlessness in heart. It is like the difference between a peak orgasm and a valley orgasm. The first is a build up that requieres movement...the second is coming out of total stillness.

When the heart is calm...the love comes of itself....whether man is here...or not.

I may have been totally off here, emc.....regarding what you are describing in this post. If so...I apologize. Just disregard it
It is just that the "difficulties getting close".....when the kriyas act up like that in the described setting....it made me wonder if maybe the "need for a man".....the emotional need.... had to be transcended.

On the journey, this egoic emotionality is definitely also something that I'm working with! I would be a fool to deny it's there to some extent. Although I currently believe it's mostly purely energy overload creating the kriyas, your posts have made me inquire more deeply into this emotional wanting... and the impatience. Thanks!

I'm like Venice... built on a garbage dump... slowly sinking... into the Ocean... Or... darn it's the Mediterranian Sea...? Does that count for an Ocean?