932 From: "zeitgeist0218" <zeitgeist0218@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun May 8, 2005 9:18pm
Subject: Something is Causing Pain zeitgeist0218
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I'm new to yoga & AYP. I started pranayama back in December in an
effort to relieve stress without knowing that pranayama should be
followed by meditation. Then in February I ran across the AYP Lessons
while googling for more info on pranayama and started following the
AYP lesson plan. I am now doing light assanas, spinal breathing,
mulabandha, sambhavi & jalandhara.
In April I started getting very sore places in my back, around my
right shoulder blade. I've also got cord like knots that run
beside my spine. It is so sore that it affects turning my head fully
to the right. I've been to the chiropractor, a massage therapist, and
tried applying heat to the area without getting any relief. This
condition is very unusual for me in that I've never experienced knots
in my back before. I have stopped doing any assanas that affect that
area like shoulder stands and anything stressing the neck.
If the nervous system is releasing things too fast can it cause
symptoms like this?
Also, I've really enjoyed the group though I've been silently
following along.
Thanks,
ZG
935 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 1:16am
Subject: Re: Something is Causing Pain obsidian9999
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> If the nervous system is releasing things too fast can it cause
> symptoms like this?
Hello ZG,
welcome to the board.
Basically yes, practice can itself "bring up" tensions like that.
But sometimes there are reasons, and they can be alleviated.
You're doing the right thing keeping yourself checked by a
chiropractor.
To get through this, to start you may want to isolate which of the
practices is causing this, if it can be isolated to one. My guess
is that it can and that it the meditation. (You can do pranayama
without meditation, by the way; they complement each other but can
certainly stand alone).
You know how to isolate like that? Cut one practice out and watch
if symptoms go away.
With my guess being that it is the meditation, I'm going to give
you a few ideas based on that.
The first thing is watch out for inadvertently bringing
some 'forcing' with you as you meditate. Some people have the idea
that they have to summon up some concentration effort; that is not
the way this kind of meditation works. In fact, strong
concentration effort can cause problems in this kind of meditation,
and in general reduce the effectiveness of it.
Check the central instructions in lesson 13. These are the two
paragraphs beginning "Once you have gotten comfortable..." and "Do
this procedure....".
You may be bringing, for example, the preconceived notion that you
have to 'keep all other thoughts (except the mantra) out of your
head'; if you have that notion, drop it. That's not in the
instructions. So that's not your responsibility. Nor is it even
your responsibility to 'stay on' the mantra. Your job is just to
come back to the mantra when you *realize* you are not thinking it.
Now, also make *SURE* that you take at least two minutes to rest at
the end of the meditation before you get up. Coming out quickly
from mantra yoga can be the cause of increased tension too.
Let us know how you do with this,
Best regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "zeitgeist0218"
<zeitgeist0218@y...> wrote:
> I'm new to yoga & AYP. I started pranayama back in December in an
> effort to relieve stress without knowing that pranayama should be
> followed by meditation. Then in February I ran across the AYP
Lessons
> while googling for more info on pranayama and started following the
> AYP lesson plan. I am now doing light assanas, spinal breathing,
> mulabandha, sambhavi & jalandhara.
>
> In April I started getting very sore places in my back, around my
> right shoulder blade. I've also got cord like knots that run
> beside my spine. It is so sore that it affects turning my head
fully
> to the right. I've been to the chiropractor, a massage therapist,
and
> tried applying heat to the area without getting any relief. This
> condition is very unusual for me in that I've never experienced
knots
> in my back before. I have stopped doing any assanas that affect
that
> area like shoulder stands and anything stressing the neck.
>
> If the nervous system is releasing things too fast can it cause
> symptoms like this?
>
> Also, I've really enjoyed the group though I've been silently
> following along.
>
>
> Thanks,
> ZG
936 From: "zeitgeist0218" <zeitgeist0218@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 0:03pm
Subject: Re: Something is Causing Pain zeitgeist0218
Offline
Send Email
David,
I don't believe that I am forcing the meditation. I release everything
after the mantra and allow what ever to happen and when I find that I
am off the mantra I gently come back to the mantra. I will say that I
sometimes find myself focusing on the mentally saying the mantra
though I don't associate any meaning with it.
I am putting a lot of effort into the spinal breathing. Often, I've
got good sensations moving up the spine, especially as it passes
through the sacrum area, and when that is happening I really focus on
"sucking" that energy up during the inbreath. I wonder if that where
I'm creating the problem??
Thanks for the clear suggestions,
ZG
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> > If the nervous system is releasing things too fast can it cause
> > symptoms like this?
>
> Hello ZG,
>
> welcome to the board.
>
> Basically yes, practice can itself "bring up" tensions like that.
> But sometimes there are reasons, and they can be alleviated.
>
> You're doing the right thing keeping yourself checked by a
> chiropractor.
>
> To get through this, to start you may want to isolate which of the
> practices is causing this, if it can be isolated to one. My guess
> is that it can and that it the meditation. (You can do pranayama
> without meditation, by the way; they complement each other but
can
> certainly stand alone).
>
> You know how to isolate like that? Cut one practice out and watch
> if symptoms go away.
>
> With my guess being that it is the meditation, I'm going to give
> you a few ideas based on that.
>
> The first thing is watch out for inadvertently bringing
> some 'forcing' with you as you meditate. Some people have the idea
> that they have to summon up some concentration effort; that is not
> the way this kind of meditation works. In fact, strong
> concentration effort can cause problems in this kind of meditation,
> and in general reduce the effectiveness of it.
>
> Check the central instructions in lesson 13. These are the two
> paragraphs beginning "Once you have gotten comfortable..." and "Do
> this procedure....".
>
> You may be bringing, for example, the preconceived notion that
you
> have to 'keep all other thoughts (except the mantra) out of your
> head'; if you have that notion, drop it. That's not in the
> instructions. So that's not your responsibility. Nor is it even
> your responsibility to 'stay on' the mantra. Your job is just to
> come back to the mantra when you *realize* you are not thinking it.
>
> Now, also make *SURE* that you take at least two minutes to rest
at
> the end of the meditation before you get up. Coming out quickly
> from mantra yoga can be the cause of increased tension too.
>
> Let us know how you do with this,
>
> Best regards,
>
> -David
937 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 0:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: Something is Causing Pain vic
Offline
Send Email
I wonder how you are sitting. Sitting in such a way that binds the hips or does not have a lift under the seat could force you into a posture that causes too much spinal strain. Make sure that you have a folded blanket, block or pillow under your butt with your legs comfortably off of it without anything forced like a difficult lotus posture or something.
Next be aware of head position. In pranayama it is good to let thee head be gently dropped forward without strain or grip at least while doing breath retentions. Dynamic jalandhara is very good or just simply letting the head drop with the chest lifted. Do not force the head down or hold it up, the key being a very soft neck. If you are doing breath retentions be sure that they are gentle and not forced. Do not do long timings of breath retentions but instead do them to your gentle moment to moment capacity. Long breath timings do more harm than good.
I hope that I touched on something that might help you as your description sounds to me more like something in practice that needs correction rather than simply a process of purification and it does sound like something is wrong so please give us more information. Pranayama is a very subtle practice and so should not give rise to physical pain more than perhaps a slight muscle soreness if you are not used to sitting.
Please give us more tchnical details of your practice so that we can help
zeitgeist0218 <zeitgeist0218@yahoo.com> wrote:
David,
I don't believe that I am forcing the meditation. I release everything
after the mantra and allow what ever to happen and when I find that I
am off the mantra I gently come back to the mantra. I will say that I
sometimes find myself focusing on the mentally saying the mantra
though I don't associate any meaning with it.
I am putting a lot of effort into the spinal breathing. Often, I've
got good sensations moving up the spine, especially as it passes
through the sacrum area, and when that is happening I really focus on
"sucking" that energy up during the inbreath. I wonder if that where
I'm creating the problem??
Thanks for the clear suggestions,
ZG
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> > If the nervous system is releasing things too fast can it cause
> > symptoms like this?
>
> Hello ZG,
>
> welcome to the board.
>
> Basically yes, practice can itself "bring up" tensions like that.
> But sometimes there are reasons, and they can be alleviated.
>
> You're doing the right thing keeping yourself checked by a
> chiropractor.
>
> To get through this, to start you may want to isolate which of the
> practices is causing this, if it can be isolated to one. My guess
> is that it can and that it the meditation. (You can do pranayama
> without meditation, by the way; they complement each other but
can
> certainly stand alone).
>
> You know how to isolate like that? Cut one practice out and watch
> if symptoms go away.
>
> With my guess being that it is the meditation, I'm going to give
> you a few ideas based on that.
>
> The first thing is watch out for inadvertently bringing
> some 'forcing' with you as you meditate. Some people have the idea
> that they have to summon up some concentration effort; that is not
> the way this kind of meditation works. In fact, strong
> concentration effort can cause problems in this kind of meditation,
> and in general reduce the effectiveness of it.
>
> Check the central instructions in lesson 13. These are the two
> paragraphs beginning "Once you have gotten comfortable..." and "Do
> this procedure....".
>
> You may be bringing, for example, the preconceived notion that
you
> have to 'keep all other thoughts (except the mantra) out of your
> head'; if you have that notion, drop it. That's not in the
> instructions. So that's not your responsibility. Nor is it even
> your responsibility to 'stay on' the mantra. Your job is just to
> come back to the mantra when you *realize* you are not thinking it.
>
> Now, also make *SURE* that you take at least two minutes to rest
at
> the end of the meditation before you get up. Coming out quickly
> from mantra yoga can be the cause of increased tension too.
>
> Let us know how you do with this,
>
> Best regards,
>
> -David
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939 From: "zeitgeist0218" <zeitgeist0218@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Something is Causing Pain zeitgeist0218
Offline
Send Email
I normally sit on the edge of a pillow several inches off the floor
with my legs off the pillow and crossed.
My head is normally up when I do a spot check and I have to make a
conscious effort to drop it forward slightly. If I feel energy moving
up the spine it make me want to setup straight.
As far as retentions, I normally limit that to about 5 seconds if I'm
doing them at all.
I do 30 minutes of asans before meditation. Meditation typically runs
20 to 25 minutes and spinal breathing is 10 to 20 minutes depending on
if things are moving. I do the practices twice a day.
ZG
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> I wonder how you are sitting. Sitting in such a way that binds the
hips or does not have a lift under the seat could force you into a
posture that causes too much spinal strain. Make sure that you have a
folded blanket, block or pillow under your butt with your legs
comfortably off of it without anything forced like a difficult lotus
posture or something.
> Next be aware of head position. In pranayama it is good to let
thee head be gently dropped forward without strain or grip at least
while doing breath retentions. Dynamic jalandhara is very good or just
simply letting the head drop with the chest lifted. Do not force the
head down or hold it up, the key being a very soft neck. If you are
doing breath retentions be sure that they are gentle and not forced.
Do not do long timings of breath retentions but instead do them to
your gentle moment to moment capacity. Long breath timings do more
harm than good.
> I hope that I touched on something that might help you as your
description sounds to me more like something in practice that needs
correction rather than simply a process of purification and it does
sound like something is wrong so please give us more information.
Pranayama is a very subtle practice and so should not give rise to
physical pain more than perhaps a slight muscle soreness if you are
not used to sitting.
> Please give us more tchnical details of your practice so that we
can help
>
940 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 3:58pm
Subject: Re: Something is Causing Pain obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
Hello ZG,
if your technique is OK, don't forget my recommendation to try to
isolate the problem to a particular practice if you can. If it is
being caused by a particular practice, omitting that practice should
make it go away.
If and when you have isolated it, you can work more on a solution.
My guess now is that the meditation is causing it, and it is a
stress-release phenomonon. So I'd suggest dropping the meditation
and keeping the others and see if it goes away.
Regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "zeitgeist0218" <zeitgeist0218@y...>
wrote:
> I normally sit on the edge of a pillow several inches off the floor
> with my legs off the pillow and crossed.
>
> My head is normally up when I do a spot check and I have to make a
> conscious effort to drop it forward slightly. If I feel energy
moving
> up the spine it make me want to setup straight.
>
> As far as retentions, I normally limit that to about 5 seconds if
I'm
> doing them at all.
>
> I do 30 minutes of asans before meditation. Meditation typically
runs
> 20 to 25 minutes and spinal breathing is 10 to 20 minutes depending
on
> if things are moving. I do the practices twice a day.
>
> ZG
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > I wonder how you are sitting. Sitting in such a way that binds the
> hips or does not have a lift under the seat could force you into a
> posture that causes too much spinal strain. Make sure that you have
a
> folded blanket, block or pillow under your butt with your legs
> comfortably off of it without anything forced like a difficult lotus
> posture or something.
>
> > Next be aware of head position. In pranayama it is good to let
> thee head be gently dropped forward without strain or grip at least
> while doing breath retentions. Dynamic jalandhara is very good or
just
> simply letting the head drop with the chest lifted. Do not force the
> head down or hold it up, the key being a very soft neck. If you are
> doing breath retentions be sure that they are gentle and not forced.
> Do not do long timings of breath retentions but instead do them to
> your gentle moment to moment capacity. Long breath timings do more
> harm than good.
>
> > I hope that I touched on something that might help you as your
> description sounds to me more like something in practice that needs
> correction rather than simply a process of purification and it does
> sound like something is wrong so please give us more information.
> Pranayama is a very subtle practice and so should not give rise to
> physical pain more than perhaps a slight muscle soreness if you are
> not used to sitting.
> > Please give us more tchnical details of your practice so that we
> can help
> >
941 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 7:51pm
Subject: Re: Something is Causing Pain -- PS obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "zeitgeist0218" > I am putting a lot
of effort into the spinal breathing. Often, I've
> got good sensations moving up the spine, especially as it passes
> through the sacrum area, and when that is happening I really focus on
> "sucking" that energy up during the inbreath. I wonder if that where
> I'm creating the problem??
I can't say, but this practice might be a good candidate too for
being chopped away to see if it is 'causing the problem'.
-D
942 From: "zeitgeist0218" <zeitgeist0218@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Something is Causing Pain -- PS zeitgeist0218
Offline
Send Email
After considering the responses I'm thinking that perhaps I should cut
back trying to pull these sensation up from the sacrum area during
spinal breathing. This is the only area that I'm actually using force
and I should just be letting it happen.
I'll give it a week or so and if it doesn't bring some relief then
I'll start cutting somewhere else, perhaps the mediation as David
suggested.
Thank guys for your input.
-ZG
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "zeitgeist0218" > I am putting a
lot
> of effort into the spinal breathing. Often, I've
> > got good sensations moving up the spine, especially as it passes
> > through the sacrum area, and when that is happening I really
focus on
> > "sucking" that energy up during the inbreath. I wonder if that
where
> > I'm creating the problem??
>
> I can't say, but this practice might be a good candidate too for
> being chopped away to see if it is 'causing the problem'.
>
>
> -D
943 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Tue May 10, 2005 1:38am
Subject: Re: Re: Something is Causing Pain -- PS fraterandros1
Offline
Send Email
Hello my brother,
>>After considering the responses I'm thinking that perhaps I should cut
back trying to pull these sensation up from the sacrum area during
spinal breathing. This is the only area that I'm actually using force
and I should just be letting it happen.<<
From my perspective this may be a good idea in the short term in order to experiment for determining causation of your problem. In the longer term, if it does not turn out to be the problem, the method of sucking/pulling up the sensations/energies is a very good one, and very effective, quite common amongst Kriya yogis of which spinal breathing of yogani is sourced. My feeling is it is the natural development of spinal breathing, hence a relatively advanced intuitive insight and one that makes spinal breathing most effective. It results for me at least, in profound ecstatic conductivity.
In kind regards,
Adam.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
944 From: "zeitgeist0218" <zeitgeist0218@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue May 10, 2005 1:14pm
Subject: Re: Something is Causing Pain -- PS zeitgeist0218
Offline
Send Email
Last night during meditation it occurred to me that perhaps it is my
head position that is causing the issue. This was suggested yesterday
and I'm starting to lean more toward the possibility. Typically we do
not sit perfectly still without moving the neck for prolonged periods.
I can see how this could stress the neck and shoulders...
I made sure that I dropped my head last night & this morning and
managed to keep it down. Time will tell if this is the issue.
Once you've started sucking/pulling up the sensations/energies it's
against your natural tendencies to stop, though I am resisting for the
moment.
I continued to be impressed at how helpful and sincere everyone has
been in this group...
Thank You!
-ZG
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Adam West" <adamwest1@i...> wrote:
> Hello my brother,
>
>
> >>After considering the responses I'm thinking that perhaps I
should cut
> back trying to pull these sensation up from the sacrum area during
> spinal breathing. This is the only area that I'm actually using
force
> and I should just be letting it happen.<<
>
> From my perspective this may be a good idea in the short term in
order to experiment for determining causation of your problem. In the
longer term, if it does not turn out to be the problem, the method of
sucking/pulling up the sensations/energies is a very good one, and
very effective, quite common amongst Kriya yogis of which spinal
breathing of yogani is sourced. My feeling is it is the natural
development of spinal breathing, hence a relatively advanced intuitive
insight and one that makes spinal breathing most effective. It
results for me at least, in profound ecstatic conductivity.
>
> In kind regards,
>
> Adam.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
938 From: "RobGee" <robg33@catskill.net>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 2:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Something is Causing Pain ginoverdi9
Offline
Send Email
When using a zafu or pillow, the key is to have the hips a bit higher than
the knees as you sit forward on the support. The support is under the
tailbone.
Rob
> I wonder how you are sitting. Sitting in such a way that binds the hips or
does not have a lift under the seat could force you into a posture that
causes too much spinal strain. Make sure that you have a folded blanket,
block or pillow under your butt with your legs comfortably off of it without
anything forced like a difficult lotus posture or something.
