460 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 0:56pm
Subject: How many hours of practices everyday? nearoanoke
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AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With other
practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of practices
everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that i know do
practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one sitting. I
understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But what about
many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and good path i
feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more practices
(and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take care of
us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi and
enthusiasm?
What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently practice.
Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of excessive
practices.
461 From: "Alex Marks" <alex@amarks81.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:08pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? alexmarks9
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I do the 20 mins meditation twice a day plus 15 mins pranayama and yoni mudra and Nauli means I do about 80 minutes a day. I think this is plenty - busy life, family, job etc. I think the risk of doing more than this isn't so much over purification etc. but of it becoming a chore and too inconvenient to manage and so you miss the odd session, then start missing regularly and it's snakes (and ladders) back to the bottom again.
----- Original Message -----
From: nearoanoke
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:56 PM
Subject: [AYPforum] How many hours of practices everyday?
AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With other
practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of practices
everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that i know do
practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one sitting. I
understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But what about
many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and good path i
feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more practices
(and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take care of
us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi and
enthusiasm?
What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently practice.
Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of excessive
practices.
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
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You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
463 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:15pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
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Beautifully stated, Alex. Yeah, it's about not increasing your overhead to the point where it
becomes something you can't keep up for years and years. The AYP practice works only in
the extremely long term - decades. So if anyone out there can commit to meditating six
hrs per day every single day without fail for 30 years, and works up to it VERY gradually,
and truly never backtracks or flakes out, I doubt there'd be a problem.
But it won't happen. We're not living in monastic caves in the Himalayas, so such practice
is not sustainable in the long run. We'll fall in love, visit Paris, take up photography, hurt
our backs, start a business, have triplets. Something in the next few decades will put us
off our practice if we get overly ambitious with it. As Yogani says, slow and steady wins. I
agree, speaking as someoone who's had a lifetime of rather extreme peaks and troughs of
spiritual practice. No more. 40 mins twice per day is quite a commitment for non-
renunciates in this modern world, but it's possible if you're very committed indeed.
The question of long term sustainable overhead is one we address in all aspects of our
lives. I've chosen to work in a field that doesn't pay well, usually. So if I get a really good
job, I don't go out and rent myself a $3000/month apartment, because I know it's not
practical in the long term. The spiritual side must also be planned with pragmatic clear
eyed common sense. It's the economics of time.
If you're feeling a swell of desire to do more, and to touch on this practice more than just
a few minutes per day as "pockets" of spirituality, you may want to ramp up your
observation of the yamas/niyamas...which is a 24/7 practice. Don't overestimate the
moral purification, it's as important (and as "spiritual") as the neural purification!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> I do the 20 mins meditation twice a day plus 15 mins pranayama and yoni mudra and
Nauli means I do about 80 minutes a day. I think this is plenty - busy life, family, job etc. I
think the risk of doing more than this isn't so much over purification etc. but of it
becoming a chore and too inconvenient to manage and so you miss the odd session, then
start missing regularly and it's snakes (and ladders) back to the bottom again.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nearoanoke
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:56 PM
> Subject: [AYPforum] How many hours of practices everyday?
>
>
>
> AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With other
> practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of practices
> everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
>
> But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that i know do
> practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one sitting. I
> understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But what about
> many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and good path i
> feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more practices
> (and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take care of
> us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi and
> enthusiasm?
>
> What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently practice.
> Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of excessive
> practices.
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
>
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
> AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
> AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
464 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:29pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? nearoanoke
Offline
Send Email
I got the point Jim and Alex. Whenever I tried to add more sessions,
I definitely had the risk of missing my regular sessions. Yes it
could totally take you off from the practice itself. Thanks for the
clarifications
Love,
Near
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Beautifully stated, Alex. Yeah, it's about not increasing your
overhead to the point where it
> becomes something you can't keep up for years and years. The AYP
practice works only in
> the extremely long term - decades. So if anyone out there can
commit to meditating six
> hrs per day every single day without fail for 30 years, and works
up to it VERY gradually,
> and truly never backtracks or flakes out, I doubt there'd be a
problem.
>
> But it won't happen. We're not living in monastic caves in the
Himalayas, so such practice
> is not sustainable in the long run. We'll fall in love, visit
Paris, take up photography, hurt
> our backs, start a business, have triplets. Something in the next
few decades will put us
> off our practice if we get overly ambitious with it. As Yogani
says, slow and steady wins. I
> agree, speaking as someoone who's had a lifetime of rather extreme
peaks and troughs of
> spiritual practice. No more. 40 mins twice per day is quite a
commitment for non-
> renunciates in this modern world, but it's possible if you're very
committed indeed.
>
> The question of long term sustainable overhead is one we address
in all aspects of our
> lives. I've chosen to work in a field that doesn't pay well,
usually. So if I get a really good
> job, I don't go out and rent myself a $3000/month apartment,
because I know it's not
> practical in the long term. The spiritual side must also be
planned with pragmatic clear
> eyed common sense. It's the economics of time.
>
> If you're feeling a swell of desire to do more, and to touch on
this practice more than just
> a few minutes per day as "pockets" of spirituality, you may want
to ramp up your
> observation of the yamas/niyamas...which is a 24/7 practice.
Don't overestimate the
> moral purification, it's as important (and as "spiritual") as the
neural purification!
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> > I do the 20 mins meditation twice a day plus 15 mins pranayama
and yoni mudra and
> Nauli means I do about 80 minutes a day. I think this is plenty -
busy life, family, job etc. I
> think the risk of doing more than this isn't so much over
purification etc. but of it
> becoming a chore and too inconvenient to manage and so you miss
the odd session, then
> start missing regularly and it's snakes (and ladders) back to the
bottom again.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: nearoanoke
> > To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:56 PM
> > Subject: [AYPforum] How many hours of practices everyday?
> >
> >
> >
> > AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With
other
> > practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of
practices
> > everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
> >
> > But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that i
know do
> > practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one
sitting. I
> > understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But what
about
> > many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and good
path i
> > feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more
practices
> > (and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take
care of
> > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi
and
> > enthusiasm?
> >
> > What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently
practice.
> > Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of
excessive
> > practices.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> >
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
email to:
> > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a
blank email to:
> > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the
group home page.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> --
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
465 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:42pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
> > God will take care of
> > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi
and
> > enthusiasm?
Hi Nearanoke,
I can understand what jim and his karma are saying, and same for
Alex. Better not make plans for long practice which cannot be kept.
At the same time, there is something to be said for making hay while
the sun shines.
Nearly everyone says to steadily maintain a minimum practice. I
have kept a steady minimum of about 30 minutes twice a day, but have
always felt free to augment it when I have opportunity. Sometimes
the opportunity is big, sometimes small. And the "opportunity" is
provided by both inner and outer conditions of course.
I did this against the advice of some teachers and never encountered
any ill-affects due to it. So I was my own guru there, and probably
right to choose myself over the other ones on that issue. I did find
my own extra practice quite beneficial.
Sometimes I did quite a lot. Once while I was laid off, I did about
six hours a day for the best part of a year.
At the same time, there is no doubt at all that some people should
not do that. One major limiting factor is mental health and
stability. But we are no more equal in what practice is best for us
than we are equal in what partner is best for us.
So if your approach is mature, and you have all your lights on, and
you are living a good day2day life-karma yoga, and extra meditation
works for you, and you have time for it, I'd say go for it.
And if in time you fall in love, visit Paris and all the rest and
your meditation drops away to a smaller steady minimum, which is
probably what will happen in one way or another, that is good too.
The extra meditation was right when it was right and the later
reduction was right when it was right and that is all part of your
life and sadhana.
Namaste,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Beautifully stated, Alex. Yeah, it's about not increasing your
overhead to the point where it
> becomes something you can't keep up for years and years. The AYP
practice works only in
> the extremely long term - decades. So if anyone out there can
commit to meditating six
> hrs per day every single day without fail for 30 years, and works
up to it VERY gradually,
> and truly never backtracks or flakes out, I doubt there'd be a
problem.
>
> But it won't happen. We're not living in monastic caves in the
Himalayas, so such practice
> is not sustainable in the long run. We'll fall in love, visit
Paris, take up photography, hurt
> our backs, start a business, have triplets. Something in the next
few decades will put us
> off our practice if we get overly ambitious with it. As Yogani
says, slow and steady wins. I
> agree, speaking as someoone who's had a lifetime of rather extreme
peaks and troughs of
> spiritual practice. No more. 40 mins twice per day is quite a
commitment for non-
> renunciates in this modern world, but it's possible if you're very
committed indeed.
>
> The question of long term sustainable overhead is one we address in
all aspects of our
> lives. I've chosen to work in a field that doesn't pay well,
usually. So if I get a really good
> job, I don't go out and rent myself a $3000/month apartment,
because I know it's not
> practical in the long term. The spiritual side must also be planned
with pragmatic clear
> eyed common sense. It's the economics of time.
>
> If you're feeling a swell of desire to do more, and to touch on
this practice more than just
> a few minutes per day as "pockets" of spirituality, you may want to
ramp up your
> observation of the yamas/niyamas...which is a 24/7 practice. Don't
overestimate the
> moral purification, it's as important (and as "spiritual") as the
neural purification!
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> > I do the 20 mins meditation twice a day plus 15 mins pranayama
and yoni mudra and
> Nauli means I do about 80 minutes a day. I think this is plenty -
busy life, family, job etc. I
> think the risk of doing more than this isn't so much over
purification etc. but of it
> becoming a chore and too inconvenient to manage and so you miss the
odd session, then
> start missing regularly and it's snakes (and ladders) back to the
bottom again.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: nearoanoke
> > To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:56 PM
> > Subject: [AYPforum] How many hours of practices everyday?
> >
> >
> >
> > AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With other
> > practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of
practices
> > everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
> >
> > But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that i
know do
> > practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one sitting.
I
> > understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But what
about
> > many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and good
path i
> > feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more
practices
> > (and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take
care of
> > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi
and
> > enthusiasm?
> >
> > What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently
practice.
> > Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of
excessive
> > practices.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> >
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
email to:
> > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank
email to:
> > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the
group home page.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> --
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
466 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:17pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? nearoanoke
Offline
Send Email
Hi David,
Well said. I have also been trying to do the same- incorporate as
much as possible whenever i have time. Till now it never hurt doing
more, so I will continue.
Especially on weekends or on free days, I go into this "retreat
mode" where I could do more meditations per day with enough rest in
between. Whenever I do in retreat mode, my meditations are really
good and I am able to concentrate extremely well with very less
thoughts. But since we have our daily work schedule, we wont be able
to do it all the time. But I am sure those retreat days are adding
up as lot of good things inside and will help in the long run.
Infact I even read yogani suggesting some sick person to do
alternate meditation-sleep cycles for cure to sickness. So more
meditations on retreat days wont hurt provided we give enough rest
in between.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> > > God will take care of
> > > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi
> and
> > > enthusiasm?
>
> Hi Nearanoke,
>
> I can understand what jim and his karma are saying, and same for
> Alex. Better not make plans for long practice which cannot be
kept.
>
> At the same time, there is something to be said for making hay
while
> the sun shines.
>
> Nearly everyone says to steadily maintain a minimum practice. I
> have kept a steady minimum of about 30 minutes twice a day, but
have
> always felt free to augment it when I have opportunity. Sometimes
> the opportunity is big, sometimes small. And the "opportunity"
is
> provided by both inner and outer conditions of course.
>
> I did this against the advice of some teachers and never
encountered
> any ill-affects due to it. So I was my own guru there, and
probably
> right to choose myself over the other ones on that issue. I did
find
> my own extra practice quite beneficial.
>
> Sometimes I did quite a lot. Once while I was laid off, I did
about
> six hours a day for the best part of a year.
>
> At the same time, there is no doubt at all that some people
should
> not do that. One major limiting factor is mental health and
> stability. But we are no more equal in what practice is best for
us
> than we are equal in what partner is best for us.
>
> So if your approach is mature, and you have all your lights on,
and
> you are living a good day2day life-karma yoga, and extra
meditation
> works for you, and you have time for it, I'd say go for it.
>
> And if in time you fall in love, visit Paris and all the rest and
> your meditation drops away to a smaller steady minimum, which is
> probably what will happen in one way or another, that is good
too.
> The extra meditation was right when it was right and the later
> reduction was right when it was right and that is all part of your
> life and sadhana.
>
> Namaste,
>
> -David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Beautifully stated, Alex. Yeah, it's about not increasing your
> overhead to the point where it
> > becomes something you can't keep up for years and years. The AYP
> practice works only in
> > the extremely long term - decades. So if anyone out there can
> commit to meditating six
> > hrs per day every single day without fail for 30 years, and
works
> up to it VERY gradually,
> > and truly never backtracks or flakes out, I doubt there'd be a
> problem.
> >
> > But it won't happen. We're not living in monastic caves in the
> Himalayas, so such practice
> > is not sustainable in the long run. We'll fall in love, visit
> Paris, take up photography, hurt
> > our backs, start a business, have triplets. Something in the
next
> few decades will put us
> > off our practice if we get overly ambitious with it. As Yogani
> says, slow and steady wins. I
> > agree, speaking as someoone who's had a lifetime of rather
extreme
> peaks and troughs of
> > spiritual practice. No more. 40 mins twice per day is quite a
> commitment for non-
> > renunciates in this modern world, but it's possible if you're
very
> committed indeed.
> >
> > The question of long term sustainable overhead is one we address
in
> all aspects of our
> > lives. I've chosen to work in a field that doesn't pay well,
> usually. So if I get a really good
> > job, I don't go out and rent myself a $3000/month apartment,
> because I know it's not
> > practical in the long term. The spiritual side must also be
planned
> with pragmatic clear
> > eyed common sense. It's the economics of time.
> >
> > If you're feeling a swell of desire to do more, and to touch on
> this practice more than just
> > a few minutes per day as "pockets" of spirituality, you may want
to
> ramp up your
> > observation of the yamas/niyamas...which is a 24/7 practice.
Don't
> overestimate the
> > moral purification, it's as important (and as "spiritual") as
the
> neural purification!
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> > > I do the 20 mins meditation twice a day plus 15 mins pranayama
> and yoni mudra and
> > Nauli means I do about 80 minutes a day. I think this is plenty -
> busy life, family, job etc. I
> > think the risk of doing more than this isn't so much over
> purification etc. but of it
> > becoming a chore and too inconvenient to manage and so you miss
the
> odd session, then
> > start missing regularly and it's snakes (and ladders) back to
the
> bottom again.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: nearoanoke
> > > To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:56 PM
> > > Subject: [AYPforum] How many hours of practices everyday?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With
other
> > > practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of
> practices
> > > everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
> > >
> > > But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that i
> know do
> > > practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one
sitting.
> I
> > > understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But
what
> about
> > > many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and good
> path i
> > > feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more
> practices
> > > (and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take
> care of
> > > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi
> and
> > > enthusiasm?
> > >
> > > What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently
> practice.
> > > Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of
> excessive
> > > practices.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > >
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a
blank
> email to:
> > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a
blank
> email to:
> > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on
the
> group home page.
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/> > >
> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
> of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
470 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:57pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
Well put, David. The problem is that while a few people can ramp up and ramp down
without ever fading out all the way, most can't. Most people who take on ambitious
protocols of any sort - be it meditation, dieting, exercise, or learning the guitar - find, in
time, that the sheer weight causes them to go from all to nothing at all. I don't know too
many amateur guitarists who lost interest but still keep their chops up. The guitar sits in
the attic!
If you're one of those people (you know who you are!) who enthusiastically overdoes stuff
but then inevitably fades, please heed my warning, because I am the poster child for this! I
get over-ambitious, and when life issues arise, I step away. And I can tell you that spiritual
practices suspended can be worse (in some ways) than spiritual practices never pursused
in the first place. It's a nasty rebound. Whereas a little done every day is far, far better than
much done on and off. It's like dieting or exercising or learning the guitar!
AYP is about integrating a reasonable, containable practice deeply and persistently into
one's life. Not a new year's resolution enterprise, nothing to go hog wild over and then
move on from. Nothing to put front-and-center and then be wiped off to make room for
the next thing that gets put front-and-center. It's about 1. doing something utterly
sustainable, and 2. sustaining it forever.
David, you may be able to scale up and down on stuff without ever totally fading. If so, I'm
jealous! Human nature is that when the going gets tough or busy, we simply shut off the
time sucking optional/elective stuff. 20 mins twice a day, hopefully, can duck under the
wire of that periodic triage we all must do. I never triage brushing my teeth (at least not
twice in a row!).
And, again, if we yen to do more "spiritual work", there's a lot of suffering in the world,
and you can make a dent in just an hour! Sic your bhakti on it!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > God will take care of
> > > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi
> and
> > > enthusiasm?
>
> Hi Nearanoke,
>
> I can understand what jim and his karma are saying, and same for
> Alex. Better not make plans for long practice which cannot be kept.
>
> At the same time, there is something to be said for making hay while
> the sun shines.
>
> Nearly everyone says to steadily maintain a minimum practice. I
> have kept a steady minimum of about 30 minutes twice a day, but have
> always felt free to augment it when I have opportunity. Sometimes
> the opportunity is big, sometimes small. And the "opportunity" is
> provided by both inner and outer conditions of course.
>
> I did this against the advice of some teachers and never encountered
> any ill-affects due to it. So I was my own guru there, and probably
> right to choose myself over the other ones on that issue. I did find
> my own extra practice quite beneficial.
>
> Sometimes I did quite a lot. Once while I was laid off, I did about
> six hours a day for the best part of a year.
>
> At the same time, there is no doubt at all that some people should
> not do that. One major limiting factor is mental health and
> stability. But we are no more equal in what practice is best for us
> than we are equal in what partner is best for us.
>
> So if your approach is mature, and you have all your lights on, and
> you are living a good day2day life-karma yoga, and extra meditation
> works for you, and you have time for it, I'd say go for it.
>
> And if in time you fall in love, visit Paris and all the rest and
> your meditation drops away to a smaller steady minimum, which is
> probably what will happen in one way or another, that is good too.
> The extra meditation was right when it was right and the later
> reduction was right when it was right and that is all part of your
> life and sadhana.
>
> Namaste,
>
> -David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Beautifully stated, Alex. Yeah, it's about not increasing your
> overhead to the point where it
> > becomes something you can't keep up for years and years. The AYP
> practice works only in
> > the extremely long term - decades. So if anyone out there can
> commit to meditating six
> > hrs per day every single day without fail for 30 years, and works
> up to it VERY gradually,
> > and truly never backtracks or flakes out, I doubt there'd be a
> problem.
> >
> > But it won't happen. We're not living in monastic caves in the
> Himalayas, so such practice
> > is not sustainable in the long run. We'll fall in love, visit
> Paris, take up photography, hurt
> > our backs, start a business, have triplets. Something in the next
> few decades will put us
> > off our practice if we get overly ambitious with it. As Yogani
> says, slow and steady wins. I
> > agree, speaking as someoone who's had a lifetime of rather extreme
> peaks and troughs of
> > spiritual practice. No more. 40 mins twice per day is quite a
> commitment for non-
> > renunciates in this modern world, but it's possible if you're very
> committed indeed.
> >
> > The question of long term sustainable overhead is one we address in
> all aspects of our
> > lives. I've chosen to work in a field that doesn't pay well,
> usually. So if I get a really good
> > job, I don't go out and rent myself a $3000/month apartment,
> because I know it's not
> > practical in the long term. The spiritual side must also be planned
> with pragmatic clear
> > eyed common sense. It's the economics of time.
> >
> > If you're feeling a swell of desire to do more, and to touch on
> this practice more than just
> > a few minutes per day as "pockets" of spirituality, you may want to
> ramp up your
> > observation of the yamas/niyamas...which is a 24/7 practice. Don't
> overestimate the
> > moral purification, it's as important (and as "spiritual") as the
> neural purification!
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> > > I do the 20 mins meditation twice a day plus 15 mins pranayama
> and yoni mudra and
> > Nauli means I do about 80 minutes a day. I think this is plenty -
> busy life, family, job etc. I
> > think the risk of doing more than this isn't so much over
> purification etc. but of it
> > becoming a chore and too inconvenient to manage and so you miss the
> odd session, then
> > start missing regularly and it's snakes (and ladders) back to the
> bottom again.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: nearoanoke
> > > To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:56 PM
> > > Subject: [AYPforum] How many hours of practices everyday?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With other
> > > practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of
> practices
> > > everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
> > >
> > > But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that i
> know do
> > > practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one sitting.
> I
> > > understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But what
> about
> > > many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and good
> path i
> > > feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more
> practices
> > > (and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take
> care of
> > > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our bhakthi
> and
> > > enthusiasm?
> > >
> > > What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently
> practice.
> > > Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of
> excessive
> > > practices.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > >
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
> email to:
> > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank
> email to:
> > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the
> group home page.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> > --
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/> > >
> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
479 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:38pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
Thanks Jim for your response.
I wanted to mention circumstances in which it is often possible to do
extra practice ad lib without the risk of, shall we say, this "boom-
and-bust" phenomenon which Jim is mentioning.
This is if you are in a community (particularly if you are resident)
in which you are committed to doing the minimum basic practice. In a
zen center near me, with which I have some connection, they have a
minimum, required practice which residents must keep. They have no
problems at all with people doing extra when they want. But if you
do a heroic 40 hours extra this week, you won't be 'allowed' to do
one hour less than the practice minimum the next week. (I am not at
all saying that they are a controlling bunch, which they are not,
so the 'allowed' is in quotes.) What I am saying is that the person
who does 40 hours extra one week, and an hour under minimum the next
is falling one hour below minimum, while the person who keeps it
exactly both weeks, is reaching minumum.
I think the psychology of this makes a lot of sense.
It is interesting that they have no embargo on extra practice, and
this may be based largely on the fact that within those
circumstances, the 'boom-and-bust' phenomenon will be inherently
limited. The embargoes on extra practice, where they exist, may
owe more to the 'boom-and-bust' thing that Jim is mentioning than
to "excess purification". I don't know if you folks have suffered
from "excess purification", but that has never been my problem.
Best regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Well put, David. The problem is that while a few people can ramp up
and ramp down
> without ever fading out all the way, most can't. Most people who
take on ambitious
> protocols of any sort - be it meditation, dieting, exercise, or
learning the guitar - find, in
> time, that the sheer weight causes them to go from all to nothing
at all. I don't know too
> many amateur guitarists who lost interest but still keep their
chops up. The guitar sits in
> the attic!
>
> If you're one of those people (you know who you are!) who
enthusiastically overdoes stuff
> but then inevitably fades, please heed my warning, because I am the
poster child for this! I
> get over-ambitious, and when life issues arise, I step away. And I
can tell you that spiritual
> practices suspended can be worse (in some ways) than spiritual
practices never pursused
> in the first place. It's a nasty rebound. Whereas a little done
every day is far, far better than
> much done on and off. It's like dieting or exercising or learning
the guitar!
>
> AYP is about integrating a reasonable, containable practice deeply
and persistently into
> one's life. Not a new year's resolution enterprise, nothing to go
hog wild over and then
> move on from. Nothing to put front-and-center and then be wiped
off to make room for
> the next thing that gets put front-and-center. It's about 1.
doing something utterly
> sustainable, and 2. sustaining it forever.
>
> David, you may be able to scale up and down on stuff without ever
totally fading. If so, I'm
> jealous! Human nature is that when the going gets tough or busy, we
simply shut off the
> time sucking optional/elective stuff. 20 mins twice a day,
hopefully, can duck under the
> wire of that periodic triage we all must do. I never triage
brushing my teeth (at least not
> twice in a row!).
>
> And, again, if we yen to do more "spiritual work", there's a lot of
suffering in the world,
> and you can make a dent in just an hour! Sic your bhakti on it!
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > > God will take care of
> > > > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our
bhakthi
> > and
> > > > enthusiasm?
> >
> > Hi Nearanoke,
> >
> > I can understand what jim and his karma are saying, and same for
> > Alex. Better not make plans for long practice which cannot be
kept.
> >
> > At the same time, there is something to be said for making hay
while
> > the sun shines.
> >
> > Nearly everyone says to steadily maintain a minimum practice. I
> > have kept a steady minimum of about 30 minutes twice a day, but
have
> > always felt free to augment it when I have opportunity.
Sometimes
> > the opportunity is big, sometimes small. And the "opportunity"
is
> > provided by both inner and outer conditions of course.
> >
> > I did this against the advice of some teachers and never
encountered
> > any ill-affects due to it. So I was my own guru there, and
probably
> > right to choose myself over the other ones on that issue. I did
find
> > my own extra practice quite beneficial.
> >
> > Sometimes I did quite a lot. Once while I was laid off, I did
about
> > six hours a day for the best part of a year.
> >
> > At the same time, there is no doubt at all that some people
should
> > not do that. One major limiting factor is mental health and
> > stability. But we are no more equal in what practice is best for
us
> > than we are equal in what partner is best for us.
> >
> > So if your approach is mature, and you have all your lights on,
and
> > you are living a good day2day life-karma yoga, and extra
meditation
> > works for you, and you have time for it, I'd say go for it.
> >
> > And if in time you fall in love, visit Paris and all the rest
and
> > your meditation drops away to a smaller steady minimum, which is
> > probably what will happen in one way or another, that is good
too.
> > The extra meditation was right when it was right and the later
> > reduction was right when it was right and that is all part of
your
> > life and sadhana.
> >
> > Namaste,
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Beautifully stated, Alex. Yeah, it's about not increasing your
> > overhead to the point where it
> > > becomes something you can't keep up for years and years. The
AYP
> > practice works only in
> > > the extremely long term - decades. So if anyone out there can
> > commit to meditating six
> > > hrs per day every single day without fail for 30 years, and
works
> > up to it VERY gradually,
> > > and truly never backtracks or flakes out, I doubt there'd be a
> > problem.
> > >
> > > But it won't happen. We're not living in monastic caves in the
> > Himalayas, so such practice
> > > is not sustainable in the long run. We'll fall in love, visit
> > Paris, take up photography, hurt
> > > our backs, start a business, have triplets. Something in the
next
> > few decades will put us
> > > off our practice if we get overly ambitious with it. As Yogani
> > says, slow and steady wins. I
> > > agree, speaking as someoone who's had a lifetime of rather
extreme
> > peaks and troughs of
> > > spiritual practice. No more. 40 mins twice per day is quite a
> > commitment for non-
> > > renunciates in this modern world, but it's possible if you're
very
> > committed indeed.
> > >
> > > The question of long term sustainable overhead is one we
address in
> > all aspects of our
> > > lives. I've chosen to work in a field that doesn't pay well,
> > usually. So if I get a really good
> > > job, I don't go out and rent myself a $3000/month apartment,
> > because I know it's not
> > > practical in the long term. The spiritual side must also be
planned
> > with pragmatic clear
> > > eyed common sense. It's the economics of time.
> > >
> > > If you're feeling a swell of desire to do more, and to touch on
> > this practice more than just
> > > a few minutes per day as "pockets" of spirituality, you may
want to
> > ramp up your
> > > observation of the yamas/niyamas...which is a 24/7 practice.
Don't
> > overestimate the
> > > moral purification, it's as important (and as "spiritual") as
the
> > neural purification!
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> > > > I do the 20 mins meditation twice a day plus 15 mins
pranayama
> > and yoni mudra and
> > > Nauli means I do about 80 minutes a day. I think this is
plenty -
> > busy life, family, job etc. I
> > > think the risk of doing more than this isn't so much over
> > purification etc. but of it
> > > becoming a chore and too inconvenient to manage and so you miss
the
> > odd session, then
> > > start missing regularly and it's snakes (and ladders) back to
the
> > bottom again.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: nearoanoke
> > > > To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:56 PM
> > > > Subject: [AYPforum] How many hours of practices everyday?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > AYP recommends 20 mins twice everyday of meditation. With
other
> > > > practices included you might be doing around 4 hours of
> > practices
> > > > everyday. That is with AYP ofcourse.
> > > >
> > > > But many sages and rushis in india and many other ppl that
i
> > know do
> > > > practice for long, definitely more than 20 mins in one
sitting.
> > I
> > > > understand excessive purification can cause hazards. But
what
> > about
> > > > many ppl who practice a lot? Since this is a divine and
good
> > path i
> > > > feel there shouldnt be any problems even if we do more
> > practices
> > > > (and be good in our day2day life-karma yoga). God will take
> > care of
> > > > us(?). Isnt this 20 mins in one-sitting limiting our
bhakthi
> > and
> > > > enthusiasm?
> > > >
> > > > What do you guys think and how many hours do u currently
> > practice.
> > > > Also please let me know of any examples of dangers coz of
> > excessive
> > > > practices.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > >
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a
blank
> > email to:
> > > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a
blank
> > email to:
> > > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email
to:
> > > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on
the
> > group home page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > --------
> > > --
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/> > > >
> > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
> > of Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
480 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:03pm
Subject: Re: How many hours of practices everyday? jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
Groups sure do help you maintain a commitment. I seriously doubt I'd run every day on a
treadmill at home. Something about the peer pressure of a gym (plus the
formality of picking up and going somewhere) strengthens the will power! Plus those Zen
guys have awfully comfy zafus to sit on (though how do you manage sadhasana on a
zafu?).
There are other such tricks. They're all good. But none are as good as ensuring that these
practices are like brushing teeth or taking out the trash or singing in the shower: truly
everyday things (in all meanings of the word "everyday")...i.e. undertakings which get
deeply and immutably locked into behavior.
Actually, my meditation is what helped me see this (merely observing my behavior wasn't
enough to convince me). The eager, curious, enthusiastic "hot" part of me which grows
fascinated with Mike Leigh films or the girl in the next cubicle or doing sit-ups or
listening to Captain Beefheart or immersing into a book I can't put down or losing 30
pounds or learning French is a fickle part indeed. It is NOT geared for long haul lifetime
undertakings, though some can plod on for a few months or even years. The stuff which
sticks is lower overhead obligations that sneak under the wire of the winnowing we do
when busy, depressed, sick, fed-up, wasted, divided...or simply growing fascinated with
Mike Leigh films and the girl in the next cubicle. AYP is a brilliant reduction to exactly,
precisely, that: something compacted sufficiently to make it under that wire. Expanding
something that's been so painstakingly compressed undercuts the whole point of this
particular set of practices.
Important note: I'm NOT saying other ways are wrong and that it's somehow a mistake to
meditate a lot! I'm just explaining the rationale for this particular game plan, and why it
appeals to me, and why people whose lives work like mine might want to pay heed).
Ok, I've made my point (several times! sorry!), so I'll shaddup now
Hope you guys don't feel like I'm lecturing you. You're all really smart and I'm getting a lot
out of all the postings here. I happen to put lots of bhakti into trying to make my points,
but please don't think I'm, like, haranguing, ok? I'ts not meant that way, I promise!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Jim for your response.
>
> I wanted to mention circumstances in which it is often possible to do
> extra practice ad lib without the risk of, shall we say, this "boom-
> and-bust" phenomenon which Jim is mentioning.
>
> This is if you are in a community (particularly if you are resident)
> in which you are committed to doing the minimum basic practice. In a
> zen center near me, with which I have some connection, they have a
> minimum, required practice which residents must keep. They have no
> problems at all with people doing extra when they want. But if you
> do a heroic 40 hours extra this week, you won't be 'allowed' to do
> one hour less than the practice minimum the next week. (I am not at
> all saying that they are a controlling bunch, which they are not,
> so the 'allowed' is in quotes.) What I am saying is that the person
> who does 40 hours extra one week, and an hour under minimum the next
> is falling one hour below minimum, while the person who keeps it
> exactly both weeks, is reaching minumum.
>
> I think the psychology of this makes a lot of sense.
>
> It is interesting that they have no embargo on extra practice, and
> this may be based largely on the fac
