enlightenment

[nirmal]

Hi everybody,

I have read so many times that when you realise we are all One of the same Spirit that you are Enlightened.

I have realised this for quite a while and I don´t feel enlightened!

Any thoughts?

nirmal[]

[nirmal]

Maybe realisation and enlightenment aren´t the same thing? Or, Self realisation and enlightenment are the same thing! I guess I´m answering my own question!

[manigma]

quote:Originally posted by nirmal

Hi everybody,

I have read so many times that when you realise we are all One of the same Spirit that you are Enlightened.

I have realised this for quite a while and I don´t feel enlightened!

Any thoughts?

nirmal[]

The real journey begins when the thoughts end.

When the thoughts end... the questions and assumptions end.

This is realization.

Enlightenment is about two blocks ahead around the corner near McDonald's.

[Anthem]

Hi nirmal,

I think often there is confusion with intellectual realization v. seeing/ knowing from the heart.

From my perspective, intellectual remembering of the fact of oneness, is like accessing any knowledge or memory a person can have stored in their brains and is different than living Oneness in each moment. Knowing/seeing from the heart is a condition of being One 24/7, where all that is seen is viewed from the heart, no boundaries, it is all one-mind.  

A large percentage of spiritual seekers & teachers will have an experience or several experiences over-time from a variety of angles about the oneness of all things at some point along the path to 24/7 self-realization. All these for sure will change a person's perspective, we will have realized an aspect of our true nature, but why stop there? Until there is a happy, peaceful and fulfilled heart, will we ever stop seeking?

From my perspective, once the inner-most call for lasting happiness is answered, whether we are enlightened or not no longer matters.

[cosmic]

quote:Originally posted by Anthem11

From my perspective, once the inner-most call for lasting happiness is answered, whether we are enlightened or not no longer matters.

Amen, brother  

Just to validate your view... My desire for enlightenment dropped away earlier this year, when love and happiness became my constant daily experience. I still don't know what enlightenment is, but my current experience is tangible and completely fulfilling.

Thank you for your insights!

[Kirtanman]

Hi Nirmal & All,

Mental realization or enlightenment, and the living experience of realization or enlightenment, are two very different things.

Shanti posted a good overview of some the differences and stages involved, here, a few months back.

And, pretty much all of us who've come to experience various benefits of practices, as far as I know, tend to mentally know, prior to to knowing in experience. And so, I'd say you're on the same track that all of us are, or have been, on ... just keep practicing, and the full knowing of experiencing/being will happen.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[wakeupneo]

Like Kirtan said, mental enlightenment and experiencial enlightenment are on completely different dimensions.

In terms of enlightenment, enlightenment does not exist. Awakening does, it's more of a tangible event. The initial awakening, aha! Is powerful insight when you realize and recognize yourself as being pure consciousness.

Enlightenment is a continuous dissolution into "that". The which there is no end, one can dissolve further and further into that. It's an existential process of shifting one's sense of identity from the individual to the universal/infinate...

[nirmal]

Thanks everybody for your beautiful and transcendent words. Yes, there is an un-deniably chasm of difference between the intellect and the heart!!!

I thank each of you!

L&L,
nirmal[]

[bewell]

quote:Originally posted by manigma

The real journey begins when the thoughts end.

When the thoughts end... the questions and assumptions end.

This is realization.

Enlightenment is about two blocks ahead around the corner near McDonald's.

Very funny! And weird for me.

You see, it so happens that "around the corner" and "about two blocks" south of my house here in Baltimore there is in fact a Mcdonalds. So I decided to play along with the joke: I went down "near McDonald's" seeking enlightenment. Immediately, I saw a man who had written on his sweatshirt the phrase, "Erase All Fear." So I asked him what that phrase means to him. From there we got into a beautiful insight dialog about "enlightenment" as it relates to the phrase "Erase All Fear." Midway through the conversation, I told him about your funny post here on the forum. He thought it was funny too.

Turns out he was a spiritual seeker, a visitor to family in Baltimore for the week, a man who ran away from home at age 14, and who lives without a set home.  He was quickly engaged in pondering the meanings of enlightenment as "Erase All Fear." He was asking things like, "What does a newborn baby dream?" and "What happens after death?" He said  the sweatshirt was a gift from his daughter this Christmas, and he had not thought about the meaning of the saying written on it. He confessed to many fears -- "fears of dying and fears of being alive." He said he could not imagine ever being free from fear in this life. Gazing into his eyes with peace, I invited him to experience the present moment, and imagine what it would be like, just for a moment to let go of all fear. He gave it a try. He liked it. Before we parted, he said, with a look of seriousness elation that he would remember that moment and that question. He said he had looked up in the sky this morning and asked for God to help him. He said he felt our encounter was an answer to that prayer. My heart is warm as I remember that man's searching eyes.

Today, for me surrender to "what is" beyond fear meant acting out the joke.

PS After writing the note above, I read Yogani's lesson titled "Fear and Enlightenment," where he writes:  "The idea is not to eliminate fear. Rather, we are to systematically move our center of awareness beyond it."
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/259.html

[manigma]

quote:Originally posted by bewell
He was quickly engaged in pondering the meanings of enlightenment as "Erase All Fear."

I would have taken him to the bar further two blocks ahead and made him completely drunk.

quote:Originally posted by bewell
PS After writing the note above, I read Yogani's lesson titled "Fear and Enlightenment," where he writes:  "The idea is not to eliminate fear. Rather, we are to systematically move our center of awareness beyond it."

Yes, this happens naturally when we continue with meditation/practices.

Fear is of two kinds.  Mental and Natural.

Animals dwell in Natural fear.  This fear is innocent.

As we turn smart and become Humans, we adapt both natural and mental level fears.

After realization, mental fears subside and only natural fears remain.  But unlike animals, we then witness those natural fears and actions performed out of that fear.  And its beautiful.

[bewell]

quote:Originally posted by manigma

I would have taken him to the bar further two blocks ahead and made him completely drunk.

 For some reason, he had quit using all alcohol and drugs.

[manigma]

quote:Originally posted by bewell
 For some reason, he had quit using all alcohol and drugs.

Ofcourse that's why he was worried about all those fears.  You either have to be Drunk or Realised to shift your awareness away.

Well I was just joking.

What you did was great.