329 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:36pm
Subject: Starting in the Middle jim_and_his_...
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I came to AVP from decades of hatha yoga, meditation, Zen, and a short stint of
Microcosmic Orbit work. I've found absolutely fantastic tools and insights here, and Yogani
is to be congratulated and thanked. But I'm having trouble cobbling it all together for
myself. There's a danger of diving into too many practices, and it's worse when they're
from too many from different traditions (while there are similarities between traditions,
they don't precisely "map" up with each other). The old adage applies: you can dig many
small holes or one deep one.
Anyway, I'm loving AVP, though (as I'll explain in a long posting I'm currently composing)
excessive kundalini pressure in the head made me turn to Taoist practices for draining
energy down the front body. AVP pranayama conflicts with some of the Iyengar-style
pranayama I've been involved with. And I have issues with the "I am" mantra (which I won't
articulate because I don't want to contaminate others with my doubts!). I'm trying to refine
my somewhat conflictive practices and traditions into a package that works for me. My
standard approach has been to gather tools - pluck them like plums and add them to my
larder. But the problem is that I very strongly resonate with Yogani's instruction to favor
the practice when you hit obstructions/distractions (it's a great technique for evading ego
traps), but...shoot, that means having a core, clear practice. I guess I'm having a spiritual
identity crisis!
Let me boil this down into a question. is there anyone who came to AVP after serious work
in other practices, and has found a way to put it all together without 1. starting from
scratch with AVP and abandoning all other work or 2. turning yourself into a tangle of
loose ends?
334 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:06pm
Subject: Re: Starting in the Middle obsidian9999
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Send Email
Jim and your Karma
,
there's a lot to be said for the plums-in-your-larder approach, and
a significant response from the practices is a great thing to have.
I don't know if I am qualified to answer your question, since I
have never had a stable, prescribed practice. But maybe I can give
some ideas from the opposite point of view --- from the point of
view of someone who has been eclectic always and done well from it.
If you are getting dizzy from so much choice, is that a problem?
If you are running into issues with some of the practices, is it a
problem?
Perhaps the situation is good --- you are working them out. Your
brain is in gear.
What is wrong with an identity crisis? Do you need a fixed position
to operate from?
Spiritual teachers often tell us to stick to specific practices.
That idea can be helpful to people. Some people seem to need
structure. But that constrains some people, especially people who
have some gifts with mixing and matching.
They say to dig one deep hole rather than many shallow ones. But
analogies can be misleading. What if each shallow hole is at the
bottom of the last, each dug with a different tool according to the
nature of the terrain? Then many holes do add up to a deep one.
A bit of confustion or disorientation at times about which tool to
use is all an inevitable part of the process for those who can work
eclectically. All I can suggest is relax into this condition and
enjoy it. Identify your specific problems (which you are about to
do) and see if you can get guidance on them.
Best regards,
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I came to AVP from decades of hatha yoga, meditation, Zen, and a
short stint of
> Microcosmic Orbit work. I've found absolutely fantastic tools and
insights here, and Yogani
> is to be congratulated and thanked. But I'm having trouble
cobbling it all together for
> myself. There's a danger of diving into too many practices, and
it's worse when they're
> from too many from different traditions (while there are
similarities between traditions,
> they don't precisely "map" up with each other). The old adage
applies: you can dig many
> small holes or one deep one.
>
> Anyway, I'm loving AVP, though (as I'll explain in a long posting
I'm currently composing)
> excessive kundalini pressure in the head made me turn to Taoist
practices for draining
> energy down the front body. AVP pranayama conflicts with some of
the Iyengar-style
> pranayama I've been involved with. And I have issues with the "I
am" mantra (which I won't
> articulate because I don't want to contaminate others with my
doubts!). I'm trying to refine
> my somewhat conflictive practices and traditions into a package
that works for me. My
> standard approach has been to gather tools - pluck them like plums
and add them to my
> larder. But the problem is that I very strongly resonate with
Yogani's instruction to favor
> the practice when you hit obstructions/distractions (it's a great
technique for evading ego
> traps), but...shoot, that means having a core, clear practice. I
guess I'm having a spiritual
> identity crisis!
>
> Let me boil this down into a question. is there anyone who came to
AVP after serious work
> in other practices, and has found a way to put it all together
without 1. starting from
> scratch with AVP and abandoning all other work or 2. turning
yourself into a tangle of
> loose ends?
338 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Starting in the Middle vic
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I have been reading thsi thread and thinking on this and wonder if it maybe too much worry over too little. If you were trying to mix shaolin kung fu with kundalini yoga and native american shamanism and had studied personally with teachers who told you to do specific practices then I would understand. I don't believe that this is the case however.
In my own case having studied Iyengar Yoga and Ayurveda I see this as basically some parts of the same tradition that had not been shared before. Personally I have never had a teacher tell me to do certain practices in a specific personal and organised fashion. When I went to a Yoga class I was given (with the other students) what the teacher had to share in class with the hopes that we would practice it. my practice has always been my own selectionand never a strict regimen that was planned for me. As such I have choices.
In regards to the differences between Yoganis pranayama vs Iyengar I can easily speak on that. In Iyengar pranayama once you have progressed to a sitting position you take padmasana, siddhasana or other comfortable crosslegged position. Yogani suggests Siddhasana. No problem.
In Iyengar you are told to keep the chin down in jalandhara bandha. Yogani also speaks of teh bandhas but introduces "dynamic jalandhara". Ok, so after doing static jalandhara for years why not take a leap of faith and try a dynamic variety. it is not strange and foriegn, it just introduces a movement to the static pranayama.It makes it "dynamic" but it does not tell you to do something completely different, it is simply a vaiation. Iyengar suggests 20 minutes a day of pranayama. Yogani suggests 10 minutes of pranayama twice a day with teh addition of mediatation. Ok, so you cut back a littel on teh pranayama and add mediatation and increase teh practice. Or you can dpo as I do which is 15 minutes of pranayama twice a day with meditation added. Yogani suggest kechari. Iyengar talks of kechari in Light On Yoga but doesn't specifically teach it. Iyengar respects kechari enough to include it in his great text on Yoga. So Yogani gives specific instructions on kechari..........
You see where I am going with this. I have practiced Iyengar style pranayama for decades and see absolutely no conflict whatsoever. It is just as if I had taken the beginner and intermediate course and now my new professor Yogani is here to teach the advanced course with new material in the SAME SUBJECT.
So in myopinion if yoiu ahve been doing iyengar or Integral Yoga or Shivananda or Kundalini yoga or Ayurveda from an Indian tradition there really should be no conflict UNLESS you have a personal teacher who you respect who wants you to do specific practices under their guidance and suggests to you not to do other practices. In that case I would respect or discuss it with your teacher. Otherwise I see noproblem.
obsidian9999 <obsidian9999@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jim and your Karma
,
there's a lot to be said for the plums-in-your-larder approach, and
a significant response from the practices is a great thing to have.
I don't know if I am qualified to answer your question, since I
have never had a stable, prescribed practice. But maybe I can give
some ideas from the opposite point of view --- from the point of
view of someone who has been eclectic always and done well from it.
If you are getting dizzy from so much choice, is that a problem?
If you are running into issues with some of the practices, is it a
problem?
Perhaps the situation is good --- you are working them out. Your
brain is in gear.
What is wrong with an identity crisis? Do you need a fixed position
to operate from?
Spiritual teachers often tell us to stick to specific practices.
That idea can be helpful to people. Some people seem to need
structure. But that constrains some people, especially people who
have some gifts with mixing and matching.
They say to dig one deep hole rather than many shallow ones. But
analogies can be misleading. What if each shallow hole is at the
bottom of the last, each dug with a different tool according to the
nature of the terrain? Then many holes do add up to a deep one.
A bit of confustion or disorientation at times about which tool to
use is all an inevitable part of the process for those who can work
eclectically. All I can suggest is relax into this condition and
enjoy it. Identify your specific problems (which you are about to
do) and see if you can get guidance on them.
Best regards,
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I came to AVP from decades of hatha yoga, meditation, Zen, and a
short stint of
> Microcosmic Orbit work. I've found absolutely fantastic tools and
insights here, and Yogani
> is to be congratulated and thanked. But I'm having trouble
cobbling it all together for
> myself. There's a danger of diving into too many practices, and
it's worse when they're
> from too many from different traditions (while there are
similarities between traditions,
> they don't precisely "map" up with each other). The old adage
applies: you can dig many
> small holes or one deep one.
>
> Anyway, I'm loving AVP, though (as I'll explain in a long posting
I'm currently composing)
> excessive kundalini pressure in the head made me turn to Taoist
practices for draining
> energy down the front body. AVP pranayama conflicts with some of
the Iyengar-style
> pranayama I've been involved with. And I have issues with the "I
am" mantra (which I won't
> articulate because I don't want to contaminate others with my
doubts!). I'm trying to refine
> my somewhat conflictive practices and traditions into a package
that works for me. My
> standard approach has been to gather tools - pluck them like plums
and add them to my
> larder. But the problem is that I very strongly resonate with
Yogani's instruction to favor
> the practice when you hit obstructions/distractions (it's a great
technique for evading ego
> traps), but...shoot, that means having a core, clear practice. I
guess I'm having a spiritual
> identity crisis!
>
> Let me boil this down into a question. is there anyone who came to
AVP after serious work
> in other practices, and has found a way to put it all together
without 1. starting from
> scratch with AVP and abandoning all other work or 2. turning
yourself into a tangle of
> loose ends?
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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335 From: "PParry" <pparry@img.net>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Starting in the Middle hermes_chela
Offline
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All I can suggest is relax into this condition and
> enjoy it. Identify your specific problems (which you are about to
> do) and see if you can get guidance on them.
Dear Karma (and his Jim) ,
It strikes me that there is some real wisdom in what -D has written. EAch
path is truly individual, when it comes down to it. There will have been a
reason why you have had the variety of exposure that you have. IMHO of
course.... Seems to me if you spend time in the Silence that Yogani's
technique can bring, that the right way will automatically emerge from that
Silence. Like -D says, trust the process :-) There are too many "shoulds"
in the world, even or maybe especially under the spiritual aegis.
Simplicity and sincerity of heart is a good synthesis for all approaches you
have embraced and it seems to me you have those qualities :-) (not that i
am an authority or anything)
Looking forward to your longer posting,
love,
patricia
336 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Starting in the Middle fraterandros1
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Greetings my brother,
From my perspective, I have had a similar back ground in terms of huge variability of practice sources, I feel this is appropriate to be well educated in this area, so as to not become narrow minded and fanatical about one practice or tradition ;-) What I do is simply carry out my own systematic experimentation with the techniques, and take the insights and learning from all traditions and theories. In time, as a result, one does seem to specialize, this comes from the above process and ones intuition as to what best works for you and direct realization and contact with the Guru with in :-)
In kind regards,
Adam.
----- Original Message -----
From: obsidian9999
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Starting in the Middle
Jim and your Karma
,
there's a lot to be said for the plums-in-your-larder approach, and
a significant response from the practices is a great thing to have.
I don't know if I am qualified to answer your question, since I
have never had a stable, prescribed practice. But maybe I can give
some ideas from the opposite point of view --- from the point of
view of someone who has been eclectic always and done well from it.
If you are getting dizzy from so much choice, is that a problem?
If you are running into issues with some of the practices, is it a
problem?
Perhaps the situation is good --- you are working them out. Your
brain is in gear.
What is wrong with an identity crisis? Do you need a fixed position
to operate from?
Spiritual teachers often tell us to stick to specific practices.
That idea can be helpful to people. Some people seem to need
structure. But that constrains some people, especially people who
have some gifts with mixing and matching.
They say to dig one deep hole rather than many shallow ones. But
analogies can be misleading. What if each shallow hole is at the
bottom of the last, each dug with a different tool according to the
nature of the terrain? Then many holes do add up to a deep one.
A bit of confustion or disorientation at times about which tool to
use is all an inevitable part of the process for those who can work
eclectically. All I can suggest is relax into this condition and
enjoy it. Identify your specific problems (which you are about to
do) and see if you can get guidance on them.
Best regards,
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I came to AVP from decades of hatha yoga, meditation, Zen, and a
short stint of
> Microcosmic Orbit work. I've found absolutely fantastic tools and
insights here, and Yogani
> is to be congratulated and thanked. But I'm having trouble
cobbling it all together for
> myself. There's a danger of diving into too many practices, and
it's worse when they're
> from too many from different traditions (while there are
similarities between traditions,
> they don't precisely "map" up with each other). The old adage
applies: you can dig many
> small holes or one deep one.
>
> Anyway, I'm loving AVP, though (as I'll explain in a long posting
I'm currently composing)
> excessive kundalini pressure in the head made me turn to Taoist
practices for draining
> energy down the front body. AVP pranayama conflicts with some of
the Iyengar-style
> pranayama I've been involved with. And I have issues with the "I
am" mantra (which I won't
> articulate because I don't want to contaminate others with my
doubts!). I'm trying to refine
> my somewhat conflictive practices and traditions into a package
that works for me. My
> standard approach has been to gather tools - pluck them like plums
and add them to my
> larder. But the problem is that I very strongly resonate with
Yogani's instruction to favor
> the practice when you hit obstructions/distractions (it's a great
technique for evading ego
> traps), but...shoot, that means having a core, clear practice. I
guess I'm having a spiritual
> identity crisis!
>
> Let me boil this down into a question. is there anyone who came to
AVP after serious work
> in other practices, and has found a way to put it all together
without 1. starting from
> scratch with AVP and abandoning all other work or 2. turning
yourself into a tangle of
> loose ends?
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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343 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:50pm
Subject: Re: Starting in the Middle jim_and_his_...
Offline
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Just replying to myself here to thank everyone for interesting, illuminating answers. Really
good stuff. But let me clarify.
I'm a maverick, I hate to color inside the lines. I go seat of pants in most everything. But,
again, i'm won over by Yogani's instruction to favor the practice rather than the
experience. There's wisdom in that (especially as the experience starts getting denser),
and I see it as a bridge over the extroardinarily treacherous waters of spiritual materialism.
As Yogani put it, if Jesus Christ shows up and asks you to go for a ride in his chariot, you
politely thank him for the invitation and return to the mantra, etc. That's a really great,
clear image. And while I'm not experiencing the Panavision kundalini ecstatic visions thing,
I do see the usefulness of having a concrete core practice to center upon when the way
gets confusing...lest I wind up like this dude:
http://www.zakairan.com (load his photo on
the "about" page at your peril).
Practice has always been a vague thing for me. My practice was my life, seasoned with
touches of this or that actual tradition. Asana binges, meditation binges, etc. It wasn't any
one single concrete thing I always did. But, again, Yogani's suggestion calls to me, and at
this point in my life I think i'd like to have literally a practice - in the classical sense -
which I commit to doing intensely every day. Touchstone, gravity, focal point. Post-
kundalini, I'm feeling some pretty peaceful waters, and I want to keep my feet wet and not
let this feeling recede. I don't want to come down this time. I'm sick of being a spiritual
yo-yo, I want to bring it all closer and really stoke the fire.
I'm kind of surprised to see so many of my fellow mavericks here. I mean, Yogani has
fashioned a very concrete, tidy batch of procedures. Very scientific, very smooth-edged.
So, with all due respect and fondness, what the heck are you guys doing here? Is everyone
just plucking plums for their larders? Are any of you actually sitting down and DOING the
actual practices every day? (this is being said with giggling mock drama...please don't get
offended, anybody!)
344 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 0:05am
Subject: Re: Re: Starting in the Middle vic
Offline
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I do the practice twice a day every day. OK, on some days when I am tired I may skip the evening practice. This has become my basic yoga practice and it works well for me.
jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just replying to myself here to thank everyone for interesting, illuminating answers. Really
good stuff. But let me clarify.
I'm a maverick, I hate to color inside the lines. I go seat of pants in most everything. But,
again, i'm won over by Yogani's instruction to favor the practice rather than the
experience. There's wisdom in that (especially as the experience starts getting denser),
and I see it as a bridge over the extroardinarily treacherous waters of spiritual materialism.
As Yogani put it, if Jesus Christ shows up and asks you to go for a ride in his chariot, you
politely thank him for the invitation and return to the mantra, etc. That's a really great,
clear image. And while I'm not experiencing the Panavision kundalini ecstatic visions thing,
I do see the usefulness of having a concrete core practice to center upon when the way
gets confusing...lest I wind up like this dude:
http://www.zakairan.com (load his photo on
the "about" page at your peril).
Practice has always been a vague thing for me. My practice was my life, seasoned with
touches of this or that actual tradition. Asana binges, meditation binges, etc. It wasn't any
one single concrete thing I always did. But, again, Yogani's suggestion calls to me, and at
this point in my life I think i'd like to have literally a practice - in the classical sense -
which I commit to doing intensely every day. Touchstone, gravity, focal point. Post-
kundalini, I'm feeling some pretty peaceful waters, and I want to keep my feet wet and not
let this feeling recede. I don't want to come down this time. I'm sick of being a spiritual
yo-yo, I want to bring it all closer and really stoke the fire.
I'm kind of surprised to see so many of my fellow mavericks here. I mean, Yogani has
fashioned a very concrete, tidy batch of procedures. Very scientific, very smooth-edged.
So, with all due respect and fondness, what the heck are you guys doing here? Is everyone
just plucking plums for their larders? Are any of you actually sitting down and DOING the
actual practices every day? (this is being said with giggling mock drama...please don't get
offended, anybody!)
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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351 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:04am
Subject: Re: Starting in the Middle azaz932001
Offline
Send Email
--I do the practice at least twice a day sometimes three times if the
need seems to arise , and verry satisfying it is too.
Blessings R.C.
>
>
> Just replying to myself here to thank everyone for interesting,
illuminating answers. Really
> good stuff. But let me clarify.
>
> I'm a maverick, I hate to color inside the lines. I go seat of
pants in most everything. But,
> again, i'm won over by Yogani's instruction to favor the practice
rather than the
> experience. There's wisdom in that (especially as the experience
starts getting denser),
> and I see it as a bridge over the extroardinarily treacherous
waters of spiritual materialism.
> As Yogani put it, if Jesus Christ shows up and asks you to go for a
ride in his chariot, you
> politely thank him for the invitation and return to the mantra,
etc. That's a really great,
> clear image. And while I'm not experiencing the Panavision
kundalini ecstatic visions thing,
> I do see the usefulness of having a concrete core practice to
center upon when the way
> gets confusing...lest I wind up like this dude:
http://www.zakairan.com (load his photo on
> the "about" page at your peril).
>
> Practice has always been a vague thing for me. My practice was my
life, seasoned with
> touches of this or that actual tradition. Asana binges, meditation
binges, etc. It wasn't any
> one single concrete thing I always did. But, again, Yogani's
suggestion calls to me, and at
> this point in my life I think i'd like to have literally a
practice - in the classical sense -
> which I commit to doing intensely every day. Touchstone, gravity,
focal point. Post-
> kundalini, I'm feeling some pretty peaceful waters, and I want to
keep my feet wet and not
> let this feeling recede. I don't want to come down this time. I'm
sick of being a spiritual
> yo-yo, I want to bring it all closer and really stoke the fire.
>
> I'm kind of surprised to see so many of my fellow mavericks here. I
mean, Yogani has
> fashioned a very concrete, tidy batch of procedures. Very
scientific, very smooth-edged.
> So, with all due respect and fondness, what the heck are you guys
doing here? Is everyone
> just plucking plums for their larders? Are any of you actually
sitting down and DOING the
> actual practices every day? (this is being said with giggling mock
drama...please don't get
> offended, anybody!)
370 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:59pm
Subject: Re: Starting in the Middle nearoanoke
Offline
Send Email
>>As Yogani put it, if Jesus Christ shows up and asks you to go for
a ride in his chariot, you politely thank him for the invitation and
return to the mantra, etc.
Wow. Thats the best quote/saying I ever heard in my life.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Just replying to myself here to thank everyone for interesting,
illuminating answers. Really
> good stuff. But let me clarify.
>
> I'm a maverick, I hate to color inside the lines. I go seat of
pants in most everything. But,
> again, i'm won over by Yogani's instruction to favor the practice
rather than the
> experience. There's wisdom in that (especially as the experience
starts getting denser),
> and I see it as a bridge over the extroardinarily treacherous
waters of spiritual materialism.
> As Yogani put it, if Jesus Christ shows up and asks you to go for
a ride in his chariot, you
> politely thank him for the invitation and return to the mantra,
etc. That's a really great,
> clear image. And while I'm not experiencing the Panavision
kundalini ecstatic visions thing,
> I do see the usefulness of having a concrete core practice to
center upon when the way
> gets confusing...lest I wind up like this dude:
http://www.zakairan.com (load his photo on
> the "about" page at your peril).
>
> Practice has always been a vague thing for me. My practice was my
life, seasoned with
> touches of this or that actual tradition. Asana binges, meditation
binges, etc. It wasn't any
> one single concrete thing I always did. But, again, Yogani's
suggestion calls to me, and at
> this point in my life I think i'd like to have literally a
practice - in the classical sense -
> which I commit to doing intensely every day. Touchstone, gravity,
focal point. Post-
> kundalini, I'm feeling some pretty peaceful waters, and I want to
keep my feet wet and not
> let this feeling recede. I don't want to come down this time. I'm
sick of being a spiritual
> yo-yo, I want to bring it all closer and really stoke the fire.
>
> I'm kind of surprised to see so many of my fellow mavericks here.
I mean, Yogani has
> fashioned a very concrete, tidy batch of procedures. Very
scientific, very smooth-edged.
> So, with all due respect and fondness, what the heck are you guys
doing here? Is everyone
> just plucking plums for their larders? Are any of you actually
sitting down and DOING the
> actual practices every day? (this is being said with giggling
mock drama...please don't get
> offended, anybody!)
375 From: "Kathy" <nagoyasea@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:11pm
Subject: Re: Starting in the Middle nagoyasea
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Dear Jim and Karma,
Your posts are so interesting---you're a great addition to the
group. Yes, I'm actually doing the practices daily. But I only do
the pranayama and the meditation. Sporadically I do the asanas but
I'm trying to be disciplined to do them daily. Not there yet,
because, I don't like doing them!
I have a mixed background as well. I did TM for years, had wonderful
results but then got sidetracked when I had my kids and career got
started. The youngest is off to college this year, and so the past
couple of years, I have been returning to my spiritual studies. I am
a Rosicrucian, but I am greatly drawn to Yogani's teachings, more so
than the TM, which I won't return to.
I am self-pacing, so I only do the pranayama and meditation. After
years in corporate america, I apparently have a lot
of 'obstructions' to release!! But the difference in my outlook and
my vision of world is so remarkably changed after doing my practices
for a few months that I am compelled to continue them and add more
in time....
Blessings,
Kathy
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Just replying to myself here to thank everyone for interesting,
illuminating answers. Really
> good stuff. But let me clarify.
>
> I'm a maverick, I hate to color inside the lines. I go seat of
pants in most everything. But,
> again, i'm won over by Yogani's instruction to favor the practice
rather than the
> experience. There's wisdom in that (especially as the experience
starts getting denser),
> and I see it as a bridge over the extroardinarily treacherous
waters of spiritual materialism.
> As Yogani put it, if Jesus Christ shows up and asks you to go for
a ride in his chariot, you
> politely thank him for the invitation and return to the mantra,
etc. That's a really great,
> clear image. And while I'm not experiencing the Panavision
kundalini ecstatic visions thing,
> I do see the usefulness of having a concrete core practice to
center upon when the way
> gets confusing...lest I wind up like this dude:
http://www.zakairan.com (load his photo on
> the "about" page at your peril).
>
> Practice has always been a vague thing for me. My practice was my
life, seasoned with
> touches of this or that actual tradition. Asana binges, meditation
binges, etc. It wasn't any
> one single concrete thing I always did. But, again, Yogani's
suggestion calls to me, and at
> this point in my life I think i'd like to have literally a
practice - in the classical sense -
> which I commit to doing intensely every day. Touchstone, gravity,
focal point. Post-
> kundalini, I'm feeling some pretty peaceful waters, and I want to
keep my feet wet and not
> let this feeling recede. I don't want to come down this time. I'm
sick of being a spiritual
> yo-yo, I want to bring it all closer and really stoke the fire.
>
> I'm kind of surprised to see so many of my fellow mavericks here.
I mean, Yogani has
> fashioned a very concrete, tidy batch of procedures. Very
scientific, very smooth-edged.
> So, with all due respect and fondness, what the heck are you guys
doing here? Is everyone
> just plucking plums for their larders? Are any of you actually
sitting down and DOING the
> actual practices every day? (this is being said with giggling
mock drama...please don't get
> offended, anybody!)
377 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:40pm
Subject: Re: Starting in the Middle jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
Kathy, that's really nice, thanks!
In the Indian tradition, the time to really relish and bump up practices is right where you
are: after having packed off the kids. I hope you experience your practices as pure
enjoyment. Many people talk about enlightenment, but walking the path (with feeling!) is,
to me, the end-all and be-all, regardless of progress. My motivation is inexhaustible
curiosity and a deep magnetic attraction; it's not about striving for a goal. I've been
climbing ladders in every facet of my life for years, and I know what that's all about (as do
you, I'm sure!). This stuff I do without striving, without ambition. I'm not looking for merit
badges!
Anyway, the above is my take, fwiw, on self-pacing. Enjoy the ride, and don't check your
odometer! Oh, and Karma sends her best!
JIM
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <nagoyasea@y...> wrote:
>
> Dear Jim and Karma,
>
> Your posts are so interesting---you're a great addition to the
> group. Yes, I'm actually doing the practices daily. But I only do
> the pranayama and the meditation. Sporadically I do the asanas but
> I'm trying to be disciplined to do them daily. Not there yet,
> because, I don't like doing them!
>
> I have a mixed background as well. I did TM for years, had wonderful
> results but then got sidetracked when I had my kids and career got
> started. The youngest is off to college this year, and so the past
> couple of years, I have been returning to my spiritual studies. I am
> a Rosicrucian, but I am greatly drawn to Yogani's teachings, more so
> than the TM, which I won't return to.
>
> I am self-pacing, so I only do the pranayama and meditation. After
> years in corporate america, I apparently have a lot
> of 'obstructions' to release!! But the difference in my outlook and
> my vision of world is so remarkably changed after doing my practices
> for a few months that I am compelled to continue them and add more
> in time....
>
> Blessings,
> Kathy
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Just replying to myself here to thank everyone for interesting,
> illuminating answers. Really
> > good stuff. But let me clarify.
> >
> > I'm a maverick, I hate to color inside the lines. I go seat of
> pants in most everything. But,
> > again, i'm won over by Yogani's instruction to favor the practice
> rather than the
> > experience. There's wisdom in that (especially as the experience
> starts getting denser),
> > and I see it as a bridge over the extroardinarily treacherous
> waters of spiritual materialism.
> > As Yogani put it, if Jesus Christ shows up and asks you to go for
> a ride in his chariot, you
> > politely thank him for the invitation and return to the mantra,
> etc. That's a really great,
> > clear image. And while I'm not experiencing the Panavision
> kundalini ecstatic visions thing,
> > I do see the usefulness of having a concrete core practice to
> center upon when the way
> > gets confusing...lest I wind up like this dude:
>
http://www.zakairan.com (load his photo on
> > the "about" page at your peril).
> >
> > Practice has always been a vague thing for me. My practice was my
> life, seasoned with
> > touches of this or that actual tradition. Asana binges, meditation
> binges, etc. It wasn't any
> > one single concrete thing I always did. But, again, Yogani's
> suggestion calls to me, and at
> > this point in my life I think i'd like to have literally a
> practice - in the classical sense -
> > which I commit to doing intensely every day. Touchstone, gravity,
> focal point. Post-
> > kundalini, I'm feeling some pretty peaceful waters, and I want to
> keep my feet wet and not
> > let this feeling recede. I don't want to come down this time. I'm
> sick of being a spiritual
> > yo-yo, I want to bring it all closer and really stoke the fire.
> >
> > I'm kind of surprised to see so many of my fellow mavericks here.
> I mean, Yogani has
> > fashioned a very concrete, tidy batch of procedures. Very
> scientific, very smooth-edged.
> > So, with all due respect and fondness, what the heck are you guys
> doing here? Is everyone
> > just plucking plums for their larders? Are any of you actually
> sitting down and DOING the
> > actual practices every day? (this is being said with giggling
> mock drama...please don't get
> > offended, anybody!)
349 From: "Danny" <danny@metalhosts.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:52am
Subject: Re: Starting in the Middle mysticaldan
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Namaste Jim,
Somehow i feel like i was typing this down rather than you. Yes I have
walked the same path as have you. From starting with Shiv Mantras to Kali
Mantras to having read the Vedic texts and so much more I just came to one
conclusion that the mind plays its game and i had fallen a victim to it. I
still do Yoga cause i know that it keeps the body healthy and one of the
first things that i leaarnt was that the body was a temple to the soul and
had to be kept healthy. Everything else followed after this.
I still do BK Iyengar's Yoga and pranayama but am concentrating mostly on
Nadhi Shodhana to clean out my energy meridians to a large extent. Pranayama
is like a dbl edged sword and it can also harm ones energy system if done
incorrectly which is probably what is causing you distress as of now.
Yogani's method of tracing the breath is laid down in the Shiv Samhita as
follows :
"
Yoni Mudra. The Sacred Drink of the Kaulas.
1. First with a strong inspiration fix the mind in the adhar lotus
[Muladhara]. Then engage in contracting the Yoni, which is situated in the
perineal space.
2. There let him contemplate that the God of Love resides in that Brahma
Yoni and that he is beautiful like Bandhuk flower (Pentapetes Phoenicia) -
brilliant as tens of millions of suns, and cool as tens of millions of
moons. Above this (Yoni) is a very small and subtle flame, whose form is
Intelligence. Then let him imagine that a union takes place there between
himself and that flame (the Shiva and Shakti).
3. (Then imagine that) - There go up through the Sushumna vessel, the three
bodies in their due order (i.e., the etheric, the astral and the mental
bodies). There is emitted in every chakra the nectar, the characteristic of
which is great bliss. Its colour is whitish rosy (pink), full of splendour,
showering down in jets the immortal fluid. Let him drink this wine of
immortality which is divine, and then again enter the Kula (perineal space).
Note - While these subtle bodies go up, they drink at every stage this
nectar, called Kulamrita.
4. Then let him go again to the Kula through the practice of matra Yoga
(i.e., pranayama). This Yoni has been called by me in the Tantras as equal
to life.
5. Again let him be absorbed in that Yoni, where dwells the fire of death -
the nature of Shiva, etc. Thus has been described by me the method of
practicing the great Yoni-Mudra. From success in its practice, there is
nothing which cannot be accomplished."
Its a little different than this but the idea is the same to trace out the
length of the Sushumna with your thoughts and imagination.
I have also always stuck to the OM beej mantra and the I AM is something
that is a little difficult to take to.
In any case i am also going through the same turmoil that you are going
through Jim but only very recently i realised that all tools are inside me
and i need not go anywhere. I am just strting at the very basics of
everything and that is my link to my breath and my life nd just learn to
identify with the breath. I am just going to sit with watching my breath for
sometime till I am comfortable with that nd then proceed to move that breath
up my spine. I am sure once i have hit the tranquility of breath things will
become clearer with each day. I dont know if all the plums that I have
collected are of any use. Gita mentions that to reach God you need to know
the HOW and for that its important tht we learn the techniques, without that
we will find it very difficult to reach Him. In all the Births we move ahead
a little and that little is by way of help to us in knowing and walking the
way.
Om Tat Sat
Dan
> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:36:51 -0000
> From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Starting in the Middle
>
>
>
> I came to AVP from decades of hatha yoga, meditation, Zen, and a short
stint of
> Microcosmic Orbit work. I've found absolutely fantastic tools and insights
here, and Yogani
> is to be congratulated and thanked. But I'm having trouble cobbling it all
together for
> myself. There's a danger of diving into too many practices, and it's worse
when they're
> from too many from different traditions (while there are similarities
between traditions,
> they don't precisely "map" up with each other). The old adage applies: you
can dig many
> small holes or one deep one.
>
> Anyway, I'm loving AVP, though (as I'll explain in a long posting I'm
currently composing)
> excessive kundalini pressure in the head made me turn to Taoist practices
for draining
> energy down the front body. AVP pranayama conflicts with some of the
Iyengar-style
> pranayama I've been involved with. And I have issues with the "I am"
mantra (which I won't
> articulate because I don't want to contaminate others with my doubts!).
I'm trying to refine
> my somewhat conflictive practices and traditions into a package that works
for me. My
> standard approach has been to gather tools - pluck them like plums and add
them to my
> larder. But the problem is that I very strongly resonate with Yogani's
instruction to favor
> the practice when you hit obstructions/distractions (it's a great
technique for evading ego
> traps), but...shoot, that means having a core, clear practice. I guess I'm
having a spiritual
> identity crisis!
>
> Let me boil this down into a question. is there anyone who came to AVP
after serious work
> in other practices, and has found a way to put it all together without 1.
starting from
> scratch with AVP and abandoning all other work or 2. turning yourself into
a tangle of
> loose ends?
