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Originally posted by 11jono11
the mind trying to keep itself in a job.
Yep; any evaluation-oriented thinking is that and only that.
Body-minds always kick stuff like that up; it goes with the body-mind, it's not conscious or volitional. What changes, as awakening progresses, is the amount of attention/attachment.
Just notice: if you're experiencing thoughts, can you be those thoughts?
Feeling upset at thoughts is identical to feeling upset at clouds in the sky.
(They're happening; kind of pointless to feel upset, yes?)
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When I surrender i feel great peace, if i try and logically work with the mind to reassure myself logically with thought it all just gets worse, so obviously the best thing to do is to not give any attention to these thoughts
Obviously.
You will experience this same dynamic approximately 100% of the time.
(It's amazing how long it takes many of us to realize the rather inherent message in this: surrender = peace .... but only every single time.)
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I am giving them attention at the moment.
Perfect (<- nothing imperfect can happen; every moment is complete, aka perfect -- as in: it's happening, why fight it?)
Same principle applies in every moment: if you're giving thoughts attention in this moment, surrender this moment ---- voila, Peace.
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Am I right in stating, there is no point worrying?
Only completely.
What is worry?
Memory-based imagination utterly unconnected with reality.
It's like a river is flowing, and you're saying to part of the water, "No, no - don't flow THAT way ... that would be terrible!!"
Kind of pointless; rivers flow as they flow; life happens as it happens.
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If I never worry and surrender everything to God then everything will be ok won't it?
Well, it'll be perfect.
As it always already actually is.
Who knows if the mind will think it's okay?
Conditioned thoughts are like burps; they happen ... and they matter every bit as much, although many of them are decidedly less amusing.
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I know that this is the case but would just like some reassurance I guess.
"Please See Above."
Reality is its own reassurance.
Focusing on conditioned ideas about reality ...... "not so much".
The only real variable is how much attention is attached to something happening in awareness.
Like burps, thoughts and ideas happen ... like burps, the experience varies depending upon how much attention is given to them.
The more we experience our self as awareness ... which anyone can verify any moment by noticing that if something can be perceived, there's still something perceiving it; experiencing it --- and that what we actually are is the experiencing awareness.
So-called enlightenment is simply being conscious of this, and enjoying the benefits.
So-called unenlightenment is being unconscious of this, and thereby being attached to the ever-shifting vacillations of form.
Awareness is constant; the flow of form is constant; only attention varies.
In our true nature of awareness, balance is inherent.
Sometimes, body-mind kicks up seemingly disproportionate reactions - such as your OCD stuff, and/or your worry .... and, like everything else, those things happen as they happen; the factors that cause them to arise now (and/or prior to your writing your post) were set in motion long ago; no reason to over-focus on them now.
Hence the advice to simply let thoughts be as they are.
When it's noticed how reality operates -- there's no reason anyone wouldn't do that.
(And yes, "easy for me to say" now; literally. However, it wasn't even possible for me to say until very recently, out of my entire life ... and yet, it's always just as observably true, by anyone -- that's why I'm passing it along.
)
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I feel like this could be a massive break through point for me, if you know what I mean?
I do; been there, dreamed that --- for a long time.
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when I let go there is so much peace.
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Should I just trust the Universe? Self? God? (all the same thing yes?) Should I just let go?
You'll do what you'll do ... and these questions help it seem like the tendency is TO do that.
Let's see ...... when you let go, there is so much peace .......... but only every time.
This was my experience, too.
It's no longer my experience, but only because there's no non-peace now.
How can that be?
The awareness we each and all ever are now doesn't get disturbed; it isn't possible; it's the inherently free experiencing awareness ... disturbance requires artificial evaluation.
How did this happen for me?
I'm really not sure; I just kept letting go until it happened.
(Yes, really.)
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If I let go everything will be ok right?
Everything happens as it happens, including letting go.
Whatever happens is perfect, whether it's peace and bliss, or your entire life derailing like a mis-handled freight train.
All this is kind of like asking "The boulder rolling down the hill ... it'll roll down the hill the way I want it to roll, right?"
The only honest answer is: it'll roll as it rolls, according to the forces that set it in motion, keep it in motion, determine its exact path, and so on.
And, as with a boulder rolling down a hill, the only truly logical response is to simply get out of the way, as quickly and utterly as possible.
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Including my physical health?
Who knows?
Bodies live when they live, die when they die. Treated in harmony with their design, the live longer; treated in a manner disharmonious with their design, they live shorter.
Whether they're treated well or poorly is a matter of reactive conditioning.
Letting go
is the logical response; the only one, ever -- because there's no one controlling any of this, any more than someone is controlling the waves of the ocean.
Why not relax and enjoy?
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This is what the OCD thoughts surround, silly as I know I can't die. I think I read Ramana saying something about a train = to God and as we're riding the train letting the train carry our luggage=worries.
Yep; fear-of-death thoughts arise, and are attached to, as long as primary identification is erroneously put into form; it subsides when awareness of self-as-awareness, containing form is restored in ongoing experiencing ("restored" per the fact that none of us are born unenlightened; it takes a lot of programming to make us that way).
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Ego feels a slight bit odd posting this, but I am sure you guys understand, maybe someone has been through something similar.
Nearly identical - including the OCD/physical health thing.
I hope this is useful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
PS- I've written before, here at the forum, that the entire path boils down to three simple steps:
1. Just
2. Let
3. Go