Ecstatic radiance?

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by azaz932001
If I ever meditate in public I try and consciously control automatic Yoga, Mine can be quite extreme with head  and neck movements and even arms and hands sometimes I don't think I could make that invisible

The great thing about periodically practicing in public is you discover exactly how much of the externalized drama (automatic yoga, movements, sounds, etc) is automatic, and how much is just out of habit of making certain movements/noices at certain times. It's a good way to clear off some of the barnacles.

[Christi]

Hi Yogani,
Thanks for the great reply.
 

quote:It is like when we learn to walk, at the same time we learn not to walk into walls or over cliffs. So it is less about "technique" than it is about becoming familiar with our own capabilities via direct experience in our environment, and adjusting our intentions and actions accordingly.

Obviously, we don't want to be frying ourselves or anyone else with our spiritual energy, so we develop our intentions in relation to that, let them go, and the rest is samyama. It is a form of self-pacing. At least that is how I have viewed it for a long time.

I agree with you on this. I feel like I am on quite a steep learning curve, and hopefully things will work themselves out soon enough.
 

quote:There will be no abyss of energy (or ego) disaster as long as we are operating from inner silence.

Obviously you are right, there is a great danger here of ego expansion. That always comes with power. But I don't really feel that it is my power, more that it is something that happens around me, and that increases in effect the more I surrender into the silence. So it is like "a power", which manifests more in the world the more I am removed from the equation. But then the ego is a slippery customer, and can easily pop up again going "Look at Me, aren't I amazing now I have been removed from the eqation!"

But I am surprised that this form of radiant energy is occuring in my life at such an early stage in my spiritual evolution. I certainly have not disolved my ego enough to be safe from temptation. Even beautiful women still tempt me (usually successfuly[]) so this kind of thing doesn't make life any easier. This could explain why so many have fallen from the path, because occult powers manifest long before there has been any significant reduction in ego identity.

I don't think that this aspect of our spiritual evolution is necessarily more dangerous egoically than any other. It is just as easy as we learn more about the spiritual process for the ego to attach itself to that and form itself around the idea of being someone who has "great spiritual knowledge", or "great spiritual experience". We find that we have an answer for everything, and get angry if anyone contradicts us. At the end of the day, it is just another ego identity which will have to go, another part of "the story". This kind of spiritual materialism seems to be becoming increasingly common these days.
 

quote:If some find this to be an over-simplification of a complex process, well, I am happy for that, because it opens the door for more folks to unfold their own destiny. That is the whole game around here -- maximizing access for everyone. We can deal with it. Somehow we have managed, for the most part, to master kitchen knives, automobiles, airplanes and nuclear energy. I'm quite sure we can master spiritual energy also. Call me an optimist.

I am not entirely sure that we have exactly "mastered" nuclear energy. We seem to be pointing large amouts of it at each other in very menacing ways![] But I will agree with the rest, especially about our ability as a race to master spiritual energies. In fact personally I would say that this process could go a long way towards saving the world. If Love radiates out from every person who is undergoing a spiritual transformation, and this energy begins to transform everyone around us, then there is great hope for the future. So you can call me an optimist too.

Thanks again for your help in this matter.

Christi

[Etherfish]

We have mastered all those things as far as how to produce and control them. So we are sure not to hurt ourselves with kitchen knives and nuclear energy, and we carefully pick who we are going to harm with them. What we have not mastered is non-harming of others, and that goes hand-in-hand with spiritual energy practices, so AYP is exactly what is needed in the mainstream.

[Christi]

Hi Etherfish
 

quote: We have mastered all those things as far as how to produce and control them. So we are sure not to hurt ourselves with kitchen knives and nuclear energy, and we carefully pick who we are going to harm with them. What we have not mastered is non-harming of others, and that goes hand-in-hand with spiritual energy practices,

You are right of course. I stand corrected. I was really trying to make the point that this is a particularily precarious time for humanity, and love is needed now all over the world more than ever before. This is why I practice Yoga.
 

quote:so AYP is exactly what is needed in the mainstream.

It would certainly be an amazing world if it was.

Christi

[Doc]

quote:Originally posted by Christi:

"....there is a great danger here of ego expansion. That always comes with power. But I don't really feel that it is my power, more that it is something that happens around me, and that increases in effect the more I surrender into the silence."

Hi Christi!

So long as this 'power', which you say is not your power, manifests around you...and increases in effect the more you surrender into the silence...then there would appear to be a direct correlation between your level of inner silence and the outer manifestations of the 'power'. This is no doubt true for all of us!

As such, we are never out of the equation.  We are the equation!

Hari OM!

Doc

[Katrine]

Hi All

Christi wrote:

 

quote:But I don't really feel that it is my power, more that it is something that happens around me, and that increases in effect the more I surrender into the silence

Yes....
Only..... it is not something that happens "around you". It is you. Radiance is never not here. You are always that. And as such - it truly is your power. But....with "me" as the reference point.....I cloud the shine. It is not that I "should not" use the power for my own benefit.....it is simply that it is impossible. It can't be done. When "me" is the reference point...I immediately make the shine unavailable. When I surrender.....when I am quiet....the shine of reality floods into the vacant space previously occupied by "me". The increased radiance.... is not really an increase - it is simply less obscured, that's all.

Christi......
Thanks for sharing your radiance. Embrace it as yourself. Let the intelligence of the shine determine what to do or not do. Nothing is wrong. You are not harming anybody. On the contrary. Don't be overly concerned with how others are dealing with this. How are you embracing and surrendering to the love you are, is more crucial. Everything starts with you.....and ends with you.

[Doc]

quote:Originally posted by Katrine:

"It is not that I "should not" use the power for my own benefit.....it is simply that it is impossible. It can't be done."

"When "me" is the reference point...I immediately make the shine unavailable."

"Everything starts with you.....and ends with you."

Hi Katrine:

I really like your overall train of thought in this last post. I would, however, like to comment on the your above quoted statements.

I disagree with the first statement in that I believe it is indeed possible for any individual to develop spiritual powers and personal 'presence'...using legitimate training methods with patience and consistency...and then choose to use these for totally selfish agendas focused solely on personal benefit.  Many even choose unethical, immoral, and illegal means of doing so.  History has recorded countless instances of this in virtually every sphere of human endeavor.  Past and present examples include people in all walks of life...from priests and gurus to politicians and CEO's...and others as well. Here are a few thoughts from other thinkers regarding this:

Lord Acton:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Nadine Gordimer:
"Power is something of which I am convinced there is no innocence this side of the womb."

Rabindranath Tagore:
"Power takes as ingratitude the writhing of its victims."

Charles A. Beard:
"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad with power."

Carl Jung:
"Where love rules, there is no will to power; and where power predominates, there love is lacking. The one is the shadow of the other."

William E. Gladstone :
"We look forward to the time when the Power of Love will replace the Love of Power. Then will our world know the blessings of peace."

I totally agree with your second statement ...i.e. that whenever self interest is the reference point, the perpetual infusion of 'power' and 'presence' immediately becomes impeded and separated from its Source, unable to continually 'recharge'.  Such an individual will only retain influence and power until their formerly fully charged 'batteries' use up all of their stored 'power'.

Lastly, I also disagree with your third quoted statement. I believe that everything starts with God...and ends with God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Source of All, and does not begin and end with us!

Hari OM!

Doc

[yogani]

Hi Doc:

I don't think divine power and worldly power can be regarded as synonymous, though both are expressing from the same source. One is born of loving surrender and is unlimited. The other is born of external manipulation and is limited. While it may not always be clear which is manifesting in the moment, we will always find out soon enough ... "Ye shall know each tree by its fruit."

Interestingly, there will always be power manifesting in one way or other, either divinely through loving surrender, or in a worldly way through willful expression. In reality, it is always going to be a blend in each of us.

There has never been a spiritual master who did not willfully express the tiniest bit of worldly power (some have expressed a lot of worldly power). And there has never been a powerful megalomaniac without some trace of a soul (some have had a lot of soul).

So it is not a matter of being one or the other. We are all both, and we each choose which way to go on that scale -- toward divine expression, or toward egoic expression. The manifestation of power is inevitable and unavoidable. Yet, from where that power is manifesting we can choose -- direct from infinite inner silence that is eternal divine love, or through a limited ego that will run us up on the rocks again and again. Is this such a difficult choice?

The guru is in you.

[Doc]

quote:Originally posted by yogani:

"I don't think divine power and worldly power can be regarded as synonymous, though both are expressing from the same source. So it is not a matter of being one or the other. We are all both, and we each choose which way to go on that scale -- toward divine expression, or toward egoic expression. The manifestation of power is inevitable and unavoidable."

Hi Yogani:

Quite so! This was my point exactly.  Who can say with certainty that the "worldly power" wielded by one person is not also granted unto them by God just as the "divine power" manifested by another person is?  Perhaps each one of us is called to serve God in a uniquely different way in accordance with a Divine Providence....which may or may not be readily understood.  The fullest potential of all manifestations and expressions of power within us and through us, for the greatest positive good of all, is dependent upon our willingness to accept our calling for its use with complete surrender to God's Will, IMO.  This is the ultimate act of devotion, is it not?

Unfortunately, there are always some who confuse the Divine Power that manifests within them and through them as their own personal power...created by their own intelligence...developed through their own talents...earned through their own efforts alone...and is thus viewed as the fruits of their own personal merit to do with as they please.

We are all challenged to some degree to look past the Illusion of our own reflection in order to perceive the Presence of God within us, and our At-One-Ment with the Divine Presence as the Ultimate Reality of our Soul Consciousness. I believe that by the Grace of God and the blessings of Divine Providence, all are capable of attaining Self-Realization...if they are willing to receive it.

Hari OM!

Doc

[Katrine]

Hi Doc

 

quote:I disagree with the first statement in that I believe it is indeed possible for any individual to develop spiritual powers and personal 'presence'...using legitimate training methods with patience and consistency...and then choose to use these for totally selfish agendas focused solely on personal benefit

Yes.
But looking beyond this.....(I am not disputing that the world is full of egos working for themselves; great list, by the way, Doc).....is the fact of Being.  I may think i am the doer; I may think I am benefitted by "my actions".....but as long as I take the "me" (humble or not; spiritually educated or not) to be the reference point, I will be stuck in duality. Very simple, really.

 

quote:I totally agree with your second statement ...i.e. that whenever self interest is the reference point, the perpetual infusion of 'power' and 'presence' immediately becomes impeded and separated from its Source, unable to continually 'recharge'. Such an individual will only retain influence and power until their formerly fully charged 'batteries' use up all of their stored 'power'.

Exactly.
Whether we agree or not, Doc, is not so important. What is truly beneficial (to all), is to act according ones own understanding (true understanding - not mental knowledge; "borrowed knowledge").  In other words - it is not beneficial to anyone to know something to be true, and then do something not resonant with this understanding. But we are full of such inner conflicts. If I act according to what I understand - truth will immediately respond. The response will be the guide to further understanding. If acted on, the light approaches (because of less resistance), if not - then have I really gained anything other than impermanent comfort? Not only have I harmed "others"; the harm I have done pierces my own heart.

 

quote:
Lastly, I also disagree with your third quoted statement. I believe that everything starts with God...and ends with God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Source of All, and does not begin and end with us!

Well.....again....we don't have to agree. Only act on what we understand. This will make both statements true. We are both home - no matter all the appearances of the contrary. The reference point is all.

I am......is not separate from God. There never was "two".

[emc]

quote:If I act according to what I understand - truth will immediately respond. The response will be the guide to further understanding. If acted on, the light approaches (because of less resistance), if not - then have I really gained anything other than impermanent comfort? Not only have I harmed "others"; the harm I have done pierces my own heart.

Katrine, I have said it before and I say it again: YOU WRITE LOVELY POSTS! This is my only guide nowadays, and it is the only guidance I use to interpret other's actions! Is the light approaching? Yes or No? Do I get an immediate response of TRUTH?

THANK YOU!

[Katrine]

emc .....

See.....the guru really is in you

[Doc]

Originally posted by Katrine:

"Yes....I am not disputing that the world is full of egos working for themselves...but...whether we agree or not is not so important."

OK.  But if it's really not important to you whether we agree or not, why do you find it necessary to reply in behalf of your own understanding as if it is important to you?

"What is truly beneficial (to all), is to act according ones own understanding (true understanding - not mental knowledge; "borrowed knowledge"). If I act according to what I understand - truth will immediately respond. The response will be the guide to further understanding."

Your statement assumes that your understanding is always based on truth, and is never subject to the human imperfections of false perception and illusion, does it not? How is that perspective free of attachments to value judgements and personal discriminations? With all due respect, it certainly looks like ego based duality is still the reference point in such self-estimation.

Hari OM!

Doc

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by Doc

 The fullest potential of all manifestations and expressions of power within us and through us, for the greatest positive good of all, is dependent upon our willingness to accept our calling for its use with complete surrender to God's Will, IMO.  This is the ultimate act of devotion, is it not?

Hi Doc:

Of course, "God's Will" is "ishta," one's chosen ideal in the act of bhakti. For one person it may be the deity and/or master of a religious tradition. For another, it may be the unconditioned stillness present within, and everywhere. For yet another, it may be the whispering spirits of nature.

So, what is "God's Will?" It is that which we are able to surrender to that represents something greater than our limited personal existence. Our longing and devotion to That will take us forward into the unlimited. It does not have to be religious (the concept of "God" is not mandatory). Nor does it have to be non-religious. It is for no one to judge except each of us in our heart. We will know our own tree by its fruit. And we can self-pace accordingly.

The guru is in you.

[VIL]

I have always loved this quote:  

"Religious truth is not absolute but relative". Baha'u'llah

Different perceptions of truth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth



VIL