hormesis and Kumbhak

[Alvin Chan]

Hi David,

quote:I think the 'real' picture may be more like the body comes to realize that there may be a serious shortage of food coming up. So it has less to do in terms of storing food -- it can no longer store food -- and it knows that maybe there are some dangerous times ahead, from which it must protect itself; so it tries to get itself into as good possible shape it can, under the constraints. By, for example, getting rid of toxins, and running a very 'tight ship' biochemically.

Besides your insights, are there anything which makes you believe this?

I think, with obvious reasons, that for most of us our "appetite" is not suitable for modern life, where food is too easy to get. Our appetite is designed to consume more than (may be a little more) we need when we can, so that we have more reserve when we HAVE TO starve. That's a good strategy for our ancesters. But in a modern country like USA, we can eat as many as we want. So we end up eating more than enough.

So may be it's not fasting that helps us, but that eating too much weaken us. It makes our body feel too secure to work! And fasting is just a chance for our body to  rediscover its original functions. Not something "extra".

Similarly for exercise, which our ancesters don't have to find spare time to do.

Makes any sense?

[Sparkle]

Alvin said
 

quote:So may be it's not fasting that helps us, but that eating too much weaken us. It makes our body feel too secure to work! And fasting is just a chance for our body to rediscover its original functions. Not something "extra".

Similarly for exercise, which our ancesters don't have to find spare time to do.

I like this Alvin, it sounds right to me. This is a great thread and it seems to point to the possible fact that to function properly we need to be stretched a little in most of what we do.

Unfortunately, it reminds me of my boss when he is setting us work targets of, "stretching but achievable", I suppose there is truth everywhere, if we know how to look

Louis

[Etherfish]

Yes our genetic data was mostly formed when there wasn't always food available. So when we eat sugars and starches, it creates insulin that causes us to store fat. Most people today are somewhat dehydrated all the time, so the toxins don't get cleared out like they should. so they get stored in the fat.
One reason we fight disease better and feel better when fasting is that it takes a lot of energy to process food.

[david_obsidian]

Alvin asked:
Besides your insights, are there anything which makes you believe this?

No, that one is 100% speculation.

Yes,  I believe the picture that we are adapted to significantly less food.  Which is one way of describing the problem.

The mechanism I speculated on doesn't contradict anything you proposed by the way.  It fits in perfectly with it.

Ether said:
One reason we fight disease better and feel better when fasting is that it takes a lot of energy to process food.

Yes,  and maybe in our evolutionary history, when food was available on an on/off basis,  the body had a strategy of consuming resources processing and storing food when it was available,  and then doing extra 'purifying' when not.

[Alvin Chan]

David wrote:

quote:The mechanism I speculated on doesn't contradict anything you proposed by the way. It fits in perfectly with it.

Yes. I was just trying to give a explanation from the point of view of evolution. Almost any human nature can be explained in this way. (The weak point of evolution is that it explains well, but predict not so well in the case of human behaviour)

Ether wrote:

quote:Yes our genetic data was mostly formed when there wasn't always food available.

As far as a modern city is concerned, I can't find any obvious evolutionary drive for today's world. Intelligence, physical strength, ability to store up fat, functions of immune systems... all these do not matter so much on the no. of off-spring you produce now. In the past it matters very much.

This lack of evolutionary drive may be weakening us. For example, as our immune system is no longer important for living (and thus reproducing, for most cases), it will be weakened gradually through the random mutation (since our modern society do not eliminate the "bad" genes).

The changes may be very slow, but it's happening.....

[david_obsidian]

Alvin said:
This lack of evolutionary drive may be weakening us.

That's true -- the big question is,  how far will it go?

And there are major stressors ahead for society as Science begins to prove beyond doubt what the effect of particular genes is,  and how powerful they are.

What happens in the long run is anyone's guess.

[Alvin Chan]

David wrote

quote:That's true -- the big question is, how far will it go?

And there are major stressors ahead for society as Science begins to prove beyond doubt what the effect of particular genes is, and how powerful they are.

What happens in the long run is anyone's guess.

Right. We probably will have some scientific breakthrough on the understanding and manipulation of human genes. If not, the lack of evolutionary drive can weaken us quite a lot as time goes by. Unless there are some policy on birth control as related to health status, intelligence, educational background (like Singapore which have some policies which favour the children of Degree holder)! But such policies are against the moral standard of most liberal, modern countries.

The fall of many ancient civilizations may give us some insights on how far it can go. I am over-simplifying by ignoring other factors, but evolution does explain a lot. Especially the fall of the nobles throughout the history who have very little evolutionary drive.

The lessons for those civilizations may be: disappearing forever! So at last the "bad" genes" are eliminated. But we, because of our secure system and technology, can live and breed regardless of our genes. So......

Sometimes I imagine a possible future (of course it's not even a guess, just an imagination) of mankind: they will be living in a heaven (??) where they will be fed by technology of their past (ie. OUR present technological breakthroughs) they never care to understand. And what they have to do, actively, are just : have sex, eat, sleep, have sex, eat,....... sleep,.....

[Lili]

quote:Originally posted by Alvin Chan


Sometimes I imagine a possible future (of course it's not even a guess, just an imagination) of mankind: they will be living in a heaven (??) where they will be fed by technology of their past (ie. OUR present technological breakthroughs) they never care to understand. And what they have to do, actively, are just : have sex, eat, sleep, have sex, eat,....... sleep,.....

On this you can check out the book by A. Huxley called 'Brave new world' - he is musing on exactly this type of society.

[david_obsidian]

Alvin said:
 And what they have to do, actively, are just : have sex, eat, sleep, have sex, eat,....... sleep,.....

Such a society would do a lot more than that!  What about create,  and enjoy creation (art, music, literature, science, nature), Meditate,  philosophize,  go hiking in the hills,  explore the oceans,  do yoga,  dance,  worship,  sing,  laugh,  form clubs and societies...  

Put everything you think is good into the list!

Alvin said:
they never care to understand

I think they would care to understand.  Life loves to grow and expand.  When someone has a capability,  and they are healthy,  they love to use it.


Lili said:
On this you can check out the book by A. Huxley called 'Brave new world' - he is musing on exactly this type of society.

I would say not at all.  His book portrays a society that is highly genetically aware,  but is as far from heaven as you could imagine.  I think his book is largely a warning against becoming genetically aware,  or at least, against acting from that awareness.

 Much as if,  before humans developed the science of Fire, a novelist who disapproved of fire might write a book in which people did use fire,  and in the book, everyone burns to death at some point.

Such a novelist might call his book,  'Fire -- the Warm New World".

[shaktipath]

Dearest
may this old thread finds you embraced in throbbing love and compassion from within!

Just writhing to give another perspective on this 3 issues from my personal experience and although i have not gone into much depths with them my positive experience might be of some interest.
i have stoped all practices few years back as my life became alive and vibrant, joy in itself...recently while witnessing my deep breathing and retention  have started to encounter flames of shakty and her marvel. Decided to find more, she led my to this forum and to realization of kumbakha. To my observance same awakening happens in asanas when streching and RELAXING into it.
Witnessing is the key and there is not supposed to be any hardship.
So thirdly -Amaroli was completely new term for me and i gave it a go to see what is it all about. Must say that such strong energy enhancement have not expected and that it works wonder with no negative effects whatsoever. Of course witnessing helps as mind gives so many   silly ideas especially the first time.
s