279 From: "vasililisa" <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:59am
Subject: Re: Kechari nonsense vasililisa
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> The more solid, factual, generous, useful stuff we post, the more
that sort of thing will
> crowd out the bickering crazy angry postings. The latter
unfortunately set the prevalent
> tone early on, and there's danger that it will alienate good people
and chase them away.
>
> What's needed to make this forum a success is for all reasonable
people to prime the
> pump, so to speak, with good material. It's a bit of work and a
leap of faith (much like the
> practices themselves!), but, in the end, more good people will come
around and post more
> good material. And slowly the tide will turn and we'll have a
really wonderful, useful
> resource for ourselves.
>
> Let's take back the forum!
actually, all this tongue stretching nonsense is in danger of
alienating ME. yaaaaaaawn.....
"good people"? who is choosing?
lili
280 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:09am
Subject: Re: Re: Kechari nonsense vic
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Since this is the ONLY forum in the world (to my knowledge) that discusses tongue stretching I would suggest that you either put up with it or ignore it if it doesn't appeal to you. Whether you believe it or not this tongue stretching nonsense is as valid and important as any other hatha Yoga practice such as headstand or standing poses.Those practices however have many many teachers and places to discuss. We who are interested in Kechari simply have this and are deeply grateful for it. If that drives you away I am sure that there are lots of good places for you to go.
vasililisa <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> The more solid, factual, generous, useful stuff we post, the more
that sort of thing will
> crowd out the bickering crazy angry postings. The latter
unfortunately set the prevalent
> tone early on, and there's danger that it will alienate good people
and chase them away.
>
> What's needed to make this forum a success is for all reasonable
people to prime the
> pump, so to speak, with good material. It's a bit of work and a
leap of faith (much like the
> practices themselves!), but, in the end, more good people will come
around and post more
> good material. And slowly the tide will turn and we'll have a
really wonderful, useful
> resource for ourselves.
>
> Let's take back the forum!
actually, all this tongue stretching nonsense is in danger of
alienating ME. yaaaaaaawn.....
"good people"? who is choosing?
lili
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283 From: "vasililisa" <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:30am
Subject: Re: Kechari nonsense vasililisa
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Since this is the ONLY forum in the world (to my knowledge) that
discusses tongue stretching I would suggest that you either put up
with it or ignore it if it doesn't appeal to you. Whether you believe
it or not this tongue stretching nonsense is as valid and important
as any other hatha Yoga practice such as headstand or standing
poses.Those practices however have many many teachers and places to
discuss. We who are interested in Kechari simply have this and are
deeply grateful for it. If that drives you away I am sure that there
are lots of good places for you to go.
there is a big difference between
standing on your head
and self-mutilation.
oh, i am tolerating it victor -
despite the regular arising of
great guffaws of laughter
i'm just a tad concerned about the innocents
who might think that this utter nonsense
is central, necessary, or even beneficial
...in any way whatsoever.
8-|
lili
286 From: "alexmarks9" <alex@amarks81.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:59am
Subject: Re: Kechari nonsense alexmarks9
Offline
Send Email
Lili, this forum is set up for open discussion of the AYP practices.
A key practice is Kechari mudra. It's a very important step and
presents some difficulties. Different people will be able to achieve
it in different ways. I'm hugely grateful that the forum does exist
and there are members willing to give the benefits of their
experience.
The stance that you've taken may inhibit people from sending in
their experiences which would reduce the value of the forum.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "vasililisa" <eryugaia@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > Since this is the ONLY forum in the world (to my knowledge) that
> discusses tongue stretching I would suggest that you either put up
> with it or ignore it if it doesn't appeal to you. Whether you
believe
> it or not this tongue stretching nonsense is as valid and
important
> as any other hatha Yoga practice such as headstand or standing
> poses.Those practices however have many many teachers and places
to
> discuss. We who are interested in Kechari simply have this and are
> deeply grateful for it. If that drives you away I am sure that
there
> are lots of good places for you to go.
>
> there is a big difference between
> standing on your head
> and self-mutilation.
>
> oh, i am tolerating it victor -
> despite the regular arising of
> great guffaws of laughter
>
> i'm just a tad concerned about the innocents
> who might think that this utter nonsense
> is central, necessary, or even beneficial
> ...in any way whatsoever.
>
> 8-|
>
>
> lili
289 From: "vasililisa" <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:22am
Subject: Re: Kechari nonsense vasililisa
Offline
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "alexmarks9" <alex@a...> wrote:
>
> Lili, this forum is set up for open discussion of the AYP
practices.
> A key practice is Kechari mudra. It's a very important step and
> presents some difficulties. Different people will be able to
achieve
> it in different ways. I'm hugely grateful that the forum does exist
> and there are members willing to give the benefits of their
> experience.
> The stance that you've taken may inhibit people from sending in
> their experiences which would reduce the value of the forum.
well... just using a bit of open discussion
to get some balance in here Alex.
just as long as no-one ends up convinced
that they have to mutilate their bodies
in order to achieve enlightenment
I have no idea what you think you are going to gain
with this practice - but if this is what enlightenment takes
in this method then I for one am not in the least bit interested
you go ahead if you like, I'm not bothered -
but we don't all have to agree with it, practice it,
or even respect its' indescriminate promotion to beginners.
this practice is NOT necessary.
anyone who is concerned that they need
to disrespect their bodies in this way
in order to make spiritual progress
...be reassured.
lili
285 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:46am
Subject: Re: Re: Kechari nonsense vic
Offline
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Have you tried this "self mutilation"? Do you know anyone personally who has? I would liek to know that.
let me tell you a little about my background. I won't bore you with a very long story but I do want you to know who you are criticising before you go on.
I am in my mid 40s and have been doing Hatha Yoga practices for 24 years now pedominantly in the tradition of BKS Iyengar. In his book "Light On Yoga" Mr Iyengar describes Kechari Mudra though it has not been taught in his schools to my knowledge. I hold a teaching degree in the Iyengar Tradition as well as a two year degree in Ayurveda taught by Vasant Lad who also mentioned Kechari though didn't go too deeply into it though i believe that he himself practiced it.
After practicing Pranayama daily for 23 years I was ready for something to take me deeper. the "next step" I became curious about Kechari as I had remembered hearing about it but had never been taught its practice. I did a search and found Yoganis sight and my search was over!
Now I am fortunate in that my tongue does this stretch rather easily. I was able to enter Kechari without any "mutilation" but it wasn't easy and I wanted to find out for myself what the fuss was about. I did one snip. It was maybe a little deep and it did make my tongue sore for about a week. During that week I stretched my tongue every day and when it healed it was much easier to go into Kechari. I didn't seem to need to do any more snipping so I didn't. i have practioced this every day for the past 10 months and I can say that it truly is the next step that I was looking for. A blockage in my throat and neck area has been healed by a combination of kechari and dynamic jalandhara and it seems to open an energetic connection between the heart, throat and head that I very much needed. It has been a godsend in my Yoga practice, so when you attack it I tryuly wonder if you have any personal experience whatsoever in this. In my opinion headstand and shoulderstand can be just as
hazardous if practiced incorrectly as kechari, all Yoga has its risks. OK, attack away, but please use your own experience as ammunition, not some half baked ideas about "mutilation"
vasililisa <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Since this is the ONLY forum in the world (to my knowledge) that
discusses tongue stretching I would suggest that you either put up
with it or ignore it if it doesn't appeal to you. Whether you believe
it or not this tongue stretching nonsense is as valid and important
as any other hatha Yoga practice such as headstand or standing
poses.Those practices however have many many teachers and places to
discuss. We who are interested in Kechari simply have this and are
deeply grateful for it. If that drives you away I am sure that there
are lots of good places for you to go.
there is a big difference between
standing on your head
and self-mutilation.
oh, i am tolerating it victor -
despite the regular arising of
great guffaws of laughter
i'm just a tad concerned about the innocents
who might think that this utter nonsense
is central, necessary, or even beneficial
...in any way whatsoever.
8-|
lili
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
297 From: "vasililisa" <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:41am
Subject: Re: Kechari nonsense vasililisa
Offline
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thank you for sharing that with us victor.
i'm nobody and i know nothing
take no notice of me
just do it your way
ROFL!
lili
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Have you tried this "self mutilation"? Do you know anyone
personally who has? I would liek to know that.
> let me tell you a little about my background. I won't bore you
with a very long story but I do want you to know who you are
criticising before you go on.
> I am in my mid 40s and have been doing Hatha Yoga practices for 24
years now pedominantly in the tradition of BKS Iyengar. In his
book "Light On Yoga" Mr Iyengar describes Kechari Mudra though it has
not been taught in his schools to my knowledge. I hold a teaching
degree in the Iyengar Tradition as well as a two year degree in
Ayurveda taught by Vasant Lad who also mentioned Kechari though
didn't go too deeply into it though i believe that he himself
practiced it.
> After practicing Pranayama daily for 23 years I was ready for
something to take me deeper. the "next step" I became curious about
Kechari as I had remembered hearing about it but had never been
taught its practice. I did a search and found Yoganis sight and my
search was over!
> Now I am fortunate in that my tongue does this stretch rather
easily. I was able to enter Kechari without any "mutilation" but it
wasn't easy and I wanted to find out for myself what the fuss was
about. I did one snip. It was maybe a little deep and it did make my
tongue sore for about a week. During that week I stretched my tongue
every day and when it healed it was much easier to go into Kechari. I
didn't seem to need to do any more snipping so I didn't. i have
practioced this every day for the past 10 months and I can say that
it truly is the next step that I was looking for. A blockage in my
throat and neck area has been healed by a combination of kechari and
dynamic jalandhara and it seems to open an energetic connection
between the heart, throat and head that I very much needed. It has
been a godsend in my Yoga practice, so when you attack it I tryuly
wonder if you have any personal experience whatsoever in this. In my
opinion headstand and shoulderstand can be just as
> hazardous if practiced incorrectly as kechari, all Yoga has its
risks. OK, attack away, but please use your own experience as
ammunition, not some half baked ideas about "mutilation"
>
> vasililisa <eryugaia@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > Since this is the ONLY forum in the world (to my knowledge) that
> discusses tongue stretching I would suggest that you either put up
> with it or ignore it if it doesn't appeal to you. Whether you
believe
> it or not this tongue stretching nonsense is as valid and important
> as any other hatha Yoga practice such as headstand or standing
> poses.Those practices however have many many teachers and places to
> discuss. We who are interested in Kechari simply have this and are
> deeply grateful for it. If that drives you away I am sure that
there
> are lots of good places for you to go.
>
> there is a big difference between
> standing on your head
> and self-mutilation.
>
> oh, i am tolerating it victor -
> despite the regular arising of
> great guffaws of laughter
>
> i'm just a tad concerned about the innocents
> who might think that this utter nonsense
> is central, necessary, or even beneficial
> ...in any way whatsoever.
>
> 8-|
>
>
> lili
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices >
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
308 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kechari nonsense vic
Offline
Send Email
Vasililisa,
You say you are nobody and know nothing. Therefore you have no experience to share and no accountability. So far you have said nothing of value so I will take no further notice of you.
Have a nice day.
vasililisa <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
thank you for sharing that with us victor.
i'm nobody and i know nothing
take no notice of me
just do it your way
ROFL!
lili
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Have you tried this "self mutilation"? Do you know anyone
personally who has? I would liek to know that.
> let me tell you a little about my background. I won't bore you
with a very long story but I do want you to know who you are
criticising before you go on.
> I am in my mid 40s and have been doing Hatha Yoga practices for 24
years now pedominantly in the tradition of BKS Iyengar. In his
book "Light On Yoga" Mr Iyengar describes Kechari Mudra though it has
not been taught in his schools to my knowledge. I hold a teaching
degree in the Iyengar Tradition as well as a two year degree in
Ayurveda taught by Vasant Lad who also mentioned Kechari though
didn't go too deeply into it though i believe that he himself
practiced it.
> After practicing Pranayama daily for 23 years I was ready for
something to take me deeper. the "next step" I became curious about
Kechari as I had remembered hearing about it but had never been
taught its practice. I did a search and found Yoganis sight and my
search was over!
> Now I am fortunate in that my tongue does this stretch rather
easily. I was able to enter Kechari without any "mutilation" but it
wasn't easy and I wanted to find out for myself what the fuss was
about. I did one snip. It was maybe a little deep and it did make my
tongue sore for about a week. During that week I stretched my tongue
every day and when it healed it was much easier to go into Kechari. I
didn't seem to need to do any more snipping so I didn't. i have
practioced this every day for the past 10 months and I can say that
it truly is the next step that I was looking for. A blockage in my
throat and neck area has been healed by a combination of kechari and
dynamic jalandhara and it seems to open an energetic connection
between the heart, throat and head that I very much needed. It has
been a godsend in my Yoga practice, so when you attack it I tryuly
wonder if you have any personal experience whatsoever in this. In my
opinion headstand and shoulderstand can be just as
> hazardous if practiced incorrectly as kechari, all Yoga has its
risks. OK, attack away, but please use your own experience as
ammunition, not some half baked ideas about "mutilation"
>
> vasililisa <eryugaia@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > Since this is the ONLY forum in the world (to my knowledge) that
> discusses tongue stretching I would suggest that you either put up
> with it or ignore it if it doesn't appeal to you. Whether you
believe
> it or not this tongue stretching nonsense is as valid and important
> as any other hatha Yoga practice such as headstand or standing
> poses.Those practices however have many many teachers and places to
> discuss. We who are interested in Kechari simply have this and are
> deeply grateful for it. If that drives you away I am sure that
there
> are lots of good places for you to go.
>
> there is a big difference between
> standing on your head
> and self-mutilation.
>
> oh, i am tolerating it victor -
> despite the regular arising of
> great guffaws of laughter
>
> i'm just a tad concerned about the innocents
> who might think that this utter nonsense
> is central, necessary, or even beneficial
> ...in any way whatsoever.
>
> 8-|
>
>
> lili
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices >
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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315 From: "vasililisa" <eryugaia@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Kechari nonsense vasililisa
Offline
Send Email
as you please
namaste
lili
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Vasililisa,
> You say you are nobody and know nothing. Therefore you have no
experience to share and no accountability. So far you have said
nothing of value so I will take no further notice of you.
> Have a nice day.
346 From: "Victor" <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 0:11am
Subject: Re: Kechari nonsense vic
Offline
Send Email
Yogani has banned Vasilisa from this group for abusive and attacking
posts and while I agree with this I also read a post which was
deleted and wanted to respond to it. In this post kechari was
compared to erotic asphyxiation and it led me to possibly understand
some of the strong reaction. Here is my reply....
OK, now I get it!
I wasn't going to respond to your posts anymore Vasililisa but now I
believe
that I understand your concerns. They are not primarily about cutting
the frenum
(I think), since in all reality cutting the frenum is no more
damaging than
getting your ears or tongue pierced. In actuality a cut frenum once
it has
healed does not appear to have been touched at all, it just doesn't
have that
little stringy thing attaching the base of the tongue to the gum.
Actually it is
a common oral surgery operation that is done to treat being "tongue
tied". soooo
What really concerns you is the belief that kechari involves some
sort of
suffocation or asphyxiation or blocking of the breathing passages.
That would be
a serious concern if it were true but fortunately it is not. I have
been
practicing kechari daily now for almost a year and can assure you
that there is
no asphyxiation involved. No blocking of the breath other than that
which is
normally done in Yoga Pranayama. While in meditation using kechari
the breath
flows in a completely unempeded fashion although it certainly does
quiet and
become more subtle. The changes are energetic not from a blockage of
the
breathing process. It can be very pleasurable in many cases and I
have heard
many dramatic accounts of it. In my case it has been much more subtle
and
integrative. It is not necessary but is certainly as helpful to me as
other yoga
practices such as conventional asana, pranayama, or meditation. I
hope that this
clarifies our concerns and maybe can ease any conflicts that we may
have.
