Pranayama and overstimulation/vomitting?

[CarsonZi]

Hello everyone,
I've been looking for an answer to my recent experiences with pranayama and deep meditation on the forum but cannot seem to find the answers I am looking for so I decided to try by starting a new topic.  My experience/issue is this:
For about the last 2 months now I have been doing both pranayama and deep meditation according to Yogani's lessons.  When I first started pranayama I wanted to see if it really would do anything and started out doing ten minutes of it before meditating and found it to be incredibly stimulating, especially in my stomache chakra.  It made it very difficult to sit through my 20 minutes of meditation afterwards and for the two days I tried the ten minutes of S.B.P. I had to stop my meditations at ten minutes because I literally could not sit there one more second.  I then backed off for a while, sticking with just my meditation routine, and then gradually added back five minutes of S.B.P. which seemed to be working fantastically.  But for the last couple of days I have been having similiar problems again.  I have not upped my time to ten minutes again and am still only doing five minutes of S.B.P. before my twenty minutes of meditation.  And like I said before, this has been going fine for about the last two months with little to no issues.  But over the past couple of days it has started happening again.  The first day it happened again was 2 days ago and by the time I was ten minutes into my meditation I started to get REALLY hot, had to remove both of my shirts and then my undershirt because they were starting to become soaked with sweat.  I then started to feel REALLY uneasy in my stomache chakra and then had to get up and throw up because the overstimulation was too great.  I felt like I had just drank a pot or two of coffee, then snorted a gram of coke, all in about a minute.  And then tried to meditate.  (I had NOT drank any coffee, done any coke, or any stimulants at all for that matter)  This happened both mediation sessions that day, and both meditation sessions yesterday, and has happened in my morning meditation today as well.  I am worried that this is becoming a trend.  What would cause this to start happening again after almost two full months of doing the exact same thing with no issues at all?  Am I just now starting to do S.B.P. correctly and this is why it is happening now?  Was I doing it wrong before and this is how it is supposed to feel?  Is this because I am moving too fast?  Is this because my body is not purified enough yet to do S.B.P.?  (I am a methadone addict still at this point)  Do I have to be completely off of methadone before I can do S.B.P. without getting these effects, or is this completely unrelated?  Has anyone else had similair experiences?  I would greatly appreciate any feedback on this as I want to continue doing S.B.P. but feel as though it may be starting to hinder my deep meditations.  
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[Richard]

Hi CarsonZi

I have never had Methadone so this is hard to answer but it sounds to me like the spinal breathing is starting to take full effect and reacting with the Methadone in your system.

Strong drugs like Methadone don't mix well with high energy forms of Yoga like spinal breathing I would just stick to meditation until you are off the Methadone if I were you.

Should give you incentive to start reducing the Methadone dosage eh

[brushjw]

I agree with Richard.  My body is becoming so sensitive I can hardly stand coffee, much less anything stronger.  At times it feels that I'm inhabiting a stranger's body.

The symptoms you describe sound like a combination of opiate withdrawal and kundalini rising.  Either one is very difficult to deal with but the combo could be disasterous.  Please take this seriously.

Try searching the forums for "grounding", rachet back your practice a few notches and let us know if things have calmed down in a day or two.

Namaste,
Joe

[CarsonZi]

Hello Joe and Richard,
Thank you for your insights.  
Richard, I HAVE in fact started downdosing my methadone dosage due to these symptoms and am having some really remarkable findings.  I have for the last three or so years taken 90mg of methadone daily, so every 24 hours.  After starting Kriya Yoga lessons, and then switching to AYPractices I was finding what Joe is saying...in that my body is starting to react to the drugs I have been taking regularly (perscription and non-perscription, {mainly marijuana in that catagory}) quite differently then usual.  In fact last night I ws driving home really late from another city where my sister just had a new baby (my first visit with my new nephew) and got myself a large coffee for the night drive home.  About half an hour after finishing the coffee I had to pull over and throw up cause I felt like I had done a gram of blow via IV injection...my heart was racing like you wouldn't believe, I broke out in a sweat, and got really nauseaous.  It wasn't methadone withdrawl though cause it went away soon after and did not intensify.  But my point was that because of these practices I have had to cut down my methadone intake to 90mg (and soon to start lessening) every 48-55 hours.  This is pretty incredible for me, as I used to have serious withdrawls starting after 28-30hours.  I'm not going so far as to say that I think I can fully quit methadone quickly and easily with just meditation and S.B.P. but it has so far REALLY decreased my tolerance to any drugs.
Joe, I am quite sure that my symptoms in meditation are not opiate withdrawl.  They leave about a half hour after meditation, and do not increasingly get worse. This is what would happen if I was going into opiate withdrawl.  I doubt you are suggesting that doing S.B.P. is CAUSING me to go into short term opiate withdrawls that stop once I am finished meditating.  And do you REALLY think it is necessary for me to "rachet back a few notches"?  I am only doing 5 minutes of S.B.P. and 20 minutes of I AM mantra meditations.  This shouldn't be too much after many months of regular meditation should it?  And why would it be happening now instead of months ago?  Can you really do S.B.P. wrong so that it gives you no effects?  And you indicated that you can't handle even coffee any more let alone anything stronger....does this indicate that Kundalini rising mimics (for lack of a better word, a stimulant? (hence all the "energy" obviously right?)  If this is the case why would it be reacting with methadone like this?  Methadone is an extreme DEPRESSANT, not stimulant and would almost either counteract the effects of Kundalini rising completely, or enhance the feeling. (like a speedball, again for lack of a better word/description)  I assure you that I am taking this seriously.  I have been trying to connect to the "source" my whole life.  This has led me through numerous spiritual paths, including drug use, and brought me here to AYP which is my sole spiritual practice at this point.  I used to read books non-stop (Autobiography, Gita, Upanishads, Tibetan Buddhist literature, Adyashanti, you name it, I read it) all in my search for spiritual answers, and now I look within as taught here in the lessons.  (I still read, but more for confirmation of the experiences I am having and less for the answers someone else can impart to me now)  
i will definitely keep you posted if this worsens, or if I start running into new problems, or if it even continues to persist.  Hopefully with the loving support of the AYP forum community, I too will be able to work through this into a full mastery of my inner silence.  Thank you for your input guys.
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[selfonlypath]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi
 I then started to feel REALLY uneasy in my stomache chakra and then had to get up and throw up because the overstimulation was too great.  

Very good CarsonZI, relax and thank Godess for a good natural detox (sacred throw up as in good old quechua shamanism) like prior an Ayahuasca or Ibogaine session except you did NOT use an entheogen to clean up the vessel !

It could also happen via sacred defecating, both sending heavy blocked energy towards Mother Earth for alchemical management then smoking up as light energy through sacred mountains.

Many roads leading to the same place...

In Shakti, Albert

[CarsonZi]

So basically what you are saying Albert is that this is a good thing and I should allow this to continue to happen as it is, as this is purifying my system?  This seems opposite to Richard and Joe's advise, which was to slow down or stop the SBP until such time as I no longer get these symptoms when doing SBP, or until I am fully off of methadone (which realistically could/should be at least 2 or 3 years down the road should I continue downdosing as I am).  I really do not want to stop (or really even cut back) the SBP as it seems to be having such wonderful benifits in the rest of my life, irregardless of the stomache torture it seems to put me through during my meditations.  I am used to puking;) haha.  
And would you mind clarifying the end of your sentence saying: "....then smoking up as light energy through sacred mountains."  What do you mean by this?  
Thank you for your input, I too really believe that there is more then one road to the same final destination.
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[Shanti]

Hi CarsonZi.

Welcome to the forum.

I would recommend you take it easy with spinal breathing. The idea is enjoy your practice and not push yourself to the limit. For now just do a min or two of spinal breathing.. if that is too much, just do 2 or 3 rounds of it.. if that feels like too much.. skip spinal breathing and do the alternate nostril breathing. Then after a few weeks add a round or 2 of spinal breathing to see if you can handle it.

Remember, getting a whole lot of purification discomfort, which interferes with your meditation, is not the best way to go. Meditation is the most important core practice. So keep your practice comfortable. If you'd like, you can add some light asanas before your routine (if you don't already do so).

Maybe this lesson will explain better what I am trying to say here:
Lesson 244 - Going for a Smooth Start in Meditation and Pranayama

This thread may also help:
Spinal Breathing after effect

Wish you all the best.

[CarsonZi]

Thank you Shanti for your reply.
May I ask you this then.....
Is it possible to become fully "Self-Realized" without becoming "Kundalini Awakened"?  And then if so...Can deep meditation awaken kundalini without the SBP practices?  If not, then would it not be more advantageous to follow Albert's advise and see this as a good and purifying thing (as long as I don't mind vomitting) that will work itself out in time?  I have never been one to go at something "half-assed".  If I apply myself at something, I apply my WHOLE self at it.  I have a hard time not "going for the gusto" with everything I apply myself to.  It was hard for me to drop down to 5 minutes of SBP after starting with 10!!  I don't want to have to "ratchet back a few notches" when I am only 2 notches in if I REALLY don't have to!! haha.  I have yet to read the lesson you linked, (it seems wierd to have to jump ahead to lesson 244, I'm on lesson 53 or something, to read how to properly START an AYP practice, but I will read it soon, tnx) but I have read the thread.  Seems similiar to my experience, but again it is hard for me to want to drop practices when I am only 2 practices into the "series".  I am about to go meditate right now, so I will let you know how it goes.  Thanks again for all the kind advise.
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi


May I ask you this then.....
Is it possible to become fully "Self-Realized" without becoming "Kundalini Awakened"?  And then if so...Can deep meditation awaken kundalini without the SBP practices?  

Yogani answered this here:
 

quote:What we call "kundalini" is stillness in the form of energy (prana) moving through us, also called "ecstatic conductivity" here in AYP. The more dramatic manifestions of it that get the publicity are only symptoms of purification and opening occurring within us as we move toward a radiating expression of stillness in all aspects of our life. Later on, kundalini becomes very refined and is known as a blissful outpouring, much as is described by Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie and others. So we are all heading for the same condition.

Can this end state be accomplished without the extreme symptoms of kundalini? With self-pacing of practices on our path, we have a pretty good chance. Everyone arrives here on earth in a slightly different condition, and therefore our process of purification and opening will be somewhat unique. On the other hand, with sound management of practices, there is the opportunity for us to promote our evolution with the least amount of disruption.

Speaking of disruption, both Tolle and Katie went through extreme anguish and pain before and during their awakenings, and neither recommends that sort of extreme scenario for their students. So we could say that even the so-called spontaneous instances of enlightenment come with energy challenges. The names for these occurrences may be changed to protect the innocent.

No matter who is undergoing spiritual transformation, the same inner neurobiological processes and events will be involved in one way or another. It may come hard or soft, slow or fast, but it will come. There is much we can do to influence it for the better.

Our job here in AYP is to do all we can to make it as progressive and comfortable as possible, and hopefully with reliable results for everyone.

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi


If not, then would it not be more advantageous to follow Albert's advise and see this as a good and purifying thing (as long as I don't mind vomitting) that will work itself out in time?  I have never been one to go at something "half-assed".  If I apply myself at something, I apply my WHOLE self at it.  I have a hard time not "going for the gusto" with everything I apply myself to.  It was hard for me to drop down to 5 minutes of SBP after starting with 10!!  I don't want to have to "ratchet back a few notches" when I am only 2 notches in if I REALLY don't have to!! haha.  I have yet to read the lesson you linked, (it seems wierd to have to jump ahead to lesson 244, I'm on lesson 53 or something, to read how to properly START an AYP practice, but I will read it soon, tnx) but I have read the thread.  Seems similiar to my experience, but again it is hard for me to want to drop practices when I am only 2 practices into the "series".  I am about to go meditate right now, so I will let you know how it goes.  Thanks again for all the kind advise.
Namaste,
CarsonZi

Hey to each his/her own.
Some of us here have gone through the extremes.. added practices like they were child's play.. paid the price.. played with fire many times and got burnt.. till most of us who have been with AYP for a few years have cut back to a point where we find that being comfortable takes you further faster than getting overloaded and slowing down/stopping for a while and then starting again. That is the only reason Richard and Joe and I have told you what we have.. self pace. Just want to pass on what worked for us.. and if charging ahead even if you are going through vomiting and uncomfortable purification is your idea of getting there faster.. no one here will stop you... we just share experiences, and suggest solutions.
All the best.

[CarsonZi]

Shanti,
Thank you for your very wise advise.  As I re-read my own posting you "quoted" I could almost SEE my ego pouring itself out through words...needing gratification through experience, not wanting to slow down so early on etc...I truely now do see that I need not be concerned with finding "enlightenment milestones" as I have read them called in other threads here, and instead should focus on my practice, as Yogani has always said from early on.  It's funny....I read these lines in the lessons, and I realize them to be true in my head, but my heart at times still needs to grasp it before I can truely understand (and put to practice)the REAL meaning of what I have just read.  I know this last sentence  has been said before too, but this too is something I am just learning in my heart but have always known in my head as well. (when it rains it pours!) Thank you for the quote from Yogani, that is exactly what I needed to hear.  I can't believe it only took you 20 mins to respond with such insight, cutting to the heart of the issue with scalpel like precision.  I truley thank you.  I WILL cut back if need be, to obtain a more comfortable and smooth transition into divine radiance.  Your advise is well-heeded, (now, haha) and I thank you for taking the time to respond to people like myself who are obviously, to someone further along, stuck in a pattern of thought unbecoming of themselves.  I won't gush further, thank you for your insight. Truely what I needed right now.
NAMASTE!
CarsonZi

[selfonlypath]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi
So basically what you are saying Albert is that this is a good thing and I should allow this to continue to happen as it is, as this is purifying my system?

Yes and I suggest your stomach be enough empty before, say you wake up in the morning, no breakfast, no lunch, just drink all day non-alcohol beverages (if you can only water) and start S.B.P. somewhere in the late afternoon. After the session, you might feel hungry then eat a lot, in particular meat to help ground more.

Wether S.B.P. or other rituals, this quechua shamanism procedure is self-paced by the fact to not do it everyday in particular when subject to hypoclycemia and allowing time integration of the induced detox.

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi
And would you mind clarifying the end of your sentence saying: "....then smoking up as light energy through sacred mountains."  What do you mean by this?  

Oups, i'm using quechua shamanic terminology which I pratice: upper world has mainly light energy (sami) & lower world mainly dense energy (hucha).  When hucha gets stuck in the human vessel residing in the middle world, it has to be sent down to earth through different techniques or rituals. Then earth will know what to do by infinite love and wisdom so this hucha will be converted into new sami & send up through apu (sacred mountain) to sky. I used smoking up as a metaphor for that last part.

[CarsonZi]

Thank you for your advise SelfOnlyPath(Albert).  I will take your advise into consideration and see where it leads.  Thank you for taking the time to help guide me.  On a personal note if you don't mind me asking, how do you manage to blend AYPractices and quecha shamanism?

[selfonlypath]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi
On a personal note if you don't mind me asking, how do you manage to blend AYPractices and quecha shamanism?

I don't practice AYP but blend quechua shamanism with other tantrik systems (left hand path and right hand path) and a slight form of Shaktipat (Siddha Maha Yoga) I carry since my birth, all this in the same spirit of AYP which is a trans-integration of multiple lineages.

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

It's funny....I read these lines in the lessons, and I realize them to be true in my head, but my heart at times still needs to grasp it before I can truely understand (and put to practice)the REAL meaning of what I have just read.  I know this last sentence  has been said before too, but this too is something I am just learning in my heart but have always known in my head as well. (when it rains it pours!)

Hi CarsonZi,
Glad my reply helped.

What you have written above is what most of us who lean towards addictions face. And with addiction, I don't mean just substance addictions, I mean addiction towards control, possessing things (material and non-material), depression, excessive thinking, excessive worrying, etc. Substance addictions actually are easy to catch, but the mind addictions are well disguised and generally hard to catch. And as you may know, even when the physical dependency on a substance is gone, getting over the mind attachment, the mind addiction is very hard.

Everyone, knowingly or unknowingly, is looking for the silence. Everyone at some point in their life has experienced that silence, that pure being, that pure joy and peace.. be it when they first fell in love, or first saw the face of their new born baby, or experienced the beauty of a sunset, or listened to a beautiful piece of music that touched their soul, or inhaled the first puff of smoke to fill their lungs with nicotine, or got high on a drug, or felt numb and mindless after a few sips of alcohol.

The problem is, the mind does not understand mindlessness... so it attaches to the object that produced that state in us. That is where addictions come in. The mind now tries to reproduce that feeling by trying to re-live that moment, it tries harder and harder to "get" that feeling back using the external sources. When it cannot find it.. it goes looking for it in other external sources. The harder it tries to find "it" externally, the further it gets away from "it".. because it is very hard for the mind to realize that that source is really within.. and you don't have to go anywhere to get it.. but within.


It is the same with meditation and other spiritual practices. You experience the silence.. and the mind thinks.. "hey.. if 20 min meditation made me feel that good.. maybe an hour will be better.".. "Hey, if this practice is doing this much for me.. then adding some more will quickly get me there". That is the biggest mind trap one has to watch out for.

In many cases people do some kind of spiritual practice or listen to a devotional song and get lost in it.. so they make it a ritual and try to recreate the experience.. not realizing, the mind is just looking for another thing to get addicted/attached to. It's like a story I read about a guru who would ask his disciples to tie up his pet cat before they started meditation, so it would not annoy them while they meditated. Years later, after the guru passed away, one day the cat died, and the disciples were in a panic and wondered where they would find another cat to tie up before they start meditation. That is how the mind works.. it makes a ritual of things.. and believes things wont work unless this ritual is followed. This is addiction. This is keeping the mind alive. This is stopping the flow.  

That is the reason, most people here will tell you to do your practice like brushing your teeth. Most people are not addicted to brushing their teeth right? You just do it and get on with your life. Similarly, if you just do your practice without expectations (hard to do but not impossible), do it like you brush your teeth (if brushing your teeth for 3 min gets the job done, you wont brush for 20 min and get your gums sore, because you think your teeth are getting cleaner now would you?), and then go out and live your life, you will soon feel the silence you experience during your practice, flow into you every day life. You will realize, that trying to hold on to something just causes more constriction.

When you do your practice, and then let go, don't expect, don't hold on, the silence will flow through you and show up in the most unexpected ways. When your mind decides "this is the only way to experience the silence", you miss out on the hundred different ways the silence blesses your life every moment of the day. The mind needs something concrete to hold on to, to control... but it's only when you trust the silence and let go the control do you experience god/truth/awareness/silence. You are right there on the cusp of getting it. Relax the mind. Don't try to get it with the mind. The mind is limited by the past. Be open to what comes. Do your practice like you would brush your teeth, and trust your silence, your inner guru to show you the way.  

And till then, self pace and enjoy.

[CarsonZi]

Thank you again for your insightful reply Shanti.  Your story of the guru with the cat made me honestly laugh out loud!  AND grin inside as I realized this is what I have been doing myself in many different ways/areas of my life.  This paragraph from the book "Inner Yoga" by Sri Anirvan came to mind as I read this and I hope you will enjoy:
"It is an accepted fact that tasting good food is enjoyable.  But really the sense of enjoyment is not in the thing being eaten, but in yourself.  If your body or mind were unwell, you would not enjoy the food even if it were tasty.  Thus, while tasting something pleasant, if you remember that the pleasure of the taste is not in the food but in yourself, you will not have to eat a great deal in order to prolong the pleasure.  The outward thing-the food-is simply a means of giving pleasure; the real current of pleasure is flowing within you.  In this way, self-restraint and refinement of taste will develop even in your enjoyment of things; you will feel ashamed to enjoy things as would a greedy man."  
I felt this could also apply to my meditation practices.  Being greedy for more experience(s) is just like trying to enjoy the good food from outside.  It will not last.  I have to learn to enjoy my practices for what they are and not try to force them into a self-created mold I deem acceptable.  I will try to enjoy my practices for what they are, and not try to force them to conform to what I wish them too from now on.  Thank you for your insight in helping me to realize this for myself.
Namaste,
CarsonZi