Research on Modifications to AYP Practices

[yogani]

Hi All:

This is to remind everyone that, while AYP may at times seem to be an immovable monolithic system, it is not intended to be that. It is intended to be a base system of practices that can be adapted according to individual needs. If AYP is not working as it should, even with self-pacing, then modifications and alternatives should be considered. When this is done, it is very helpful to share the results (good or bad) in the AYP forums, because many can gain from our individual experiences.

We only have to be careful to minimize confusing newcomers who are learning the AYP practices for the first time, particularly deep meditation and spinal breathing pranayama. Other than being mindful about that, all explorations are welcome in the appropriate forum categories.  

You may recall a post I did a few months ago on the distribution of practitioners according to their relative sensitivity or insensitivity to practices in relation to the overall community, and how this might be represented by a "bell curve": http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=4507&whichpage=3#38482

In time, we'll see if a bell curve provides a reasonable picture of "sensitivity distribution." Clearly, some are sensitive to practices, and some are insensitive to practices, while many more seem to be in the middle having reasonable results, assuming there is prudent self-pacing in the picture.

There are endless variations on practice, and it is not possible to cover them all in one core teaching while maintaining a cohesive baseline - a reference point. And it is not possible for one person to cover every conceivable variation in practice with the authority of direct experience either. However, as a community we can, and I think this is the best model going forward - a baseline with unlimited exploration extending in all directions from there. That is an important part of what has been going on in these forums since they started in 2005. The knowledge-base that is being created here is very valuable.

So, I just wanted to encourage everyone to continue to speak up on modifications in practice that offer promise, with emphasis on direct experience (cause and effect), particularly for those with specific issues that are not being addressed, or possibly even being aggravated by the AYP practices. No one's feelings are going to be hurt, least of all mine. We'd like to cover as many bases as we can, so everyone can gain the maximum benefit in their daily practices.  

It is the truth we are looking for here. The AYP system can be a useful baseline, but it is not going to be the perfect answer for everyone in every circumstance. This is true of every system of spiritual practice.

That is why we say...

The guru is in you.
 

[anthony574]

That's really great Yogani. It is refreshing and suprising to hear a teacher of your stature encourage experimentation and modfication of his teachings.

I know that some of the greatest leaps I have made in practices were due to suggestions from others that were not specifically mentioned in AYP.

For example, recently I was having a lot of frustration with DM and someone reccomended to me to try visualizing the words IAM. I thought it was un-kosher because maybe it would fall into the category of "off the mantra" but it truly didnt feel that way when I tried it. It honestly felt like a big leap in my practice and now I am very excited again to keep it up! And interestingly, another member who is somewhat of an AYP veteran :-) said they did the same thing!

But I also understand the importance of not overloading newcomers with modifications. I'm sure the general dispositions on the forum is to follow Yogani's teachings (multiple readings[]) and then come to the forums with your own questions and add/subtract/modify whatever you see fit. I know that there have been many suggestions made to me over the years that I never really picked up or used, and some that seemed up my alley, to so speak. I think it is intuitive what may work and what seems too far off the mark for an individual.

Once again, thats really cool of you, Yogani

[YogaIsLife]

Hi,

I am a newcomer to Yoga and AYP has been my first formal practice of meditation and pranayama. I've been doing it only for 9 months and started it not necessarily for spiritual advancement but for betterment of quality of life and overall health/well being. I can safely say that it was an invaluable help to achieve these objectives but, at the same time, it went much further in my expectations, and who knows where it will lead!

I came to it with fairly big obstructions and problems in my system. I found AYP deep meditation to be a good overall purifier like Yogani says. I also found I am in the sensitive side of the spectrum at the moment which, from one prespective, is an advantage as I see the effects of practices from just a little usage. I had problems from the beggining with Spinal Breathing as I seemed to have many obstructions in the throat/head reagion due to accumulated strains. In my tries I read about the Taoist Microcosmic Orbit and also found it useful but overall, Deep Meditation alone seemed to do the trick in overall purification, and Spinal Breathing got better afterwards.

Other variations to AYP that I read in the forums and that I found interesting were many of the tantric techniques others suggested/developed, such as the blocking without usage of hands.

This is a great website and project, and, although I am no expert, it seems to me to be the most comprehensive (and open source!) system of spiritual practices available nowadays. That does not mean there are not others that are better but either they are not very well explained or they are not put into a holistic and comprehensive system that everybody can use. This is the great advantage of AYP. And a challenge for others that want to teach their own systems!

The forums are great exactly because we can discuss practices, effects, and modifications/alternatives with many people from diverse backgrounds and then we just follow our own intuition into what we feel might help us along the way or a specific phase in our lives. I find even myself not sure yet about some aspects of AYP like the mantra I AM (a bit of mystery still for me), or about Tantric sex as explained by Yogani (been reading about the Taoist take on this as well, and others) so, overall, I am still exploring and trying to find "my" own system. It's an exploration, a discovery and it seems to be a path we all have to travel on our own for our specific way. Still, without AYP this task would have seemed very very hard or almost impossible! Hence, my appreciation.

All the best, and keep seeing you around

[themysticseeker]

My only remark is to incorporate (I don't know if this is already there) some discussion in DM about non-focused non-attachment, otherwise known as "space-like" dhyana. One seeks to be rid of desires. This is not to be mistaken with no enjoyment. Desire is attachment. Even the mahasiddhas enjoyed everything, including sex, but it was the attachment and desire which was terminated with the "space-like" dhyana. When there is no desire and no attachment, the higher states and siddhis are easily attained. The mind is vast, omnipresent, containing all appearances and empty like space. The kundalini practices amplify this cognition, because they act as a noise canceler, and allow the mind to focus. The "space-like" dhyana allows one to drop the object of focus and use the nature of the mind itself as the object (which is not an object).

More on this later...

Love,

TMS

[yogani]

Hi Anthony and All:

Glad to hear you are finding your own way. Never give up!

It is the "stature" you mentioned that we have to be careful about, whether it is assigned to a teacher, or a system of practices. The perception of stature tends to undermine independent exploration and innovation. At its worst, stature leads to a belief-culture of "haves" and "have-nots," also known as "sectarianism." That is why I hope the concepts of "horizontal transmission" and "peer-to-peer" will always be associated with AYP.

On the other hand, doing independent exploration and innovation is not about trying 50 things in rapid succession and benefiting little from any of them. Neither is it about adding excessive variations and complexities into a baseline system whose purpose is to provide simple and effective means for practitioners to activate the essential principles of human spiritual transformation. Upon such basics, and a stable daily routine of practice, the explorations and modifications can occur in a fruitful way, not much before. Beginners deserve some clarity. This is why I suggest newcomers review the lessons before delving too much into the forums, which contain abundant information on many systems of practice. In spiritual matters, less is usually more, and it is up to each of us to craft our own approach in concert with our unique process of purification and opening.

Proposed modifications and alternative approaches have been plentiful since AYP began in 2003, in great mountains in my email, and in the forums ever since they started. Many times, modifications, alternatives, and even entire other systems have sought validation from me, the community, or from the AYP system itself, sometimes to the point of insisting that the baseline AYP system be rewritten to suit. This is obviously a tricky business, because a practice or system of practices seeking external validation is doing it at the expense of finding its own internal validation through direct experience and the observation of cause and effect. With the latter, no validation from outside is necessary. Once shared, the results will be self-evident for those who resonate.

So there is no need to seek external validation, or to cram anything down anyone's throat. If we express our explorations and experiences openly and honestly, letting go of the need for external validation, then some practitioners will resonate with what we share and others will not. That is how it is, even for the AYP system. One size does not fit all. So, we begin with the basics and go from there, connecting with knowledge, practices and experiences in ways that best suit our nature. We will know it when we see it.

The guru is in you.

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Friends.....

I was reluctant to post in this topic basically for the reasons Yogani stated above...can confuse newcomers, there already is a great baseline set of practices that are simple and effective and there is no need to make things more complex then they need to be, etc etc....but since Yogani did such a great job in the above post warning against these things, I feel it is ok to contribute a variation to DM that has worked for me and now a few others I know of.  The second paragraph in this post here:http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=5077&whichpage=3#44368 explains how I got the hang of DM.  
I found that the key (again for me) in DM was letting the mantra "refine" into almost nothing. This did not happen for me until after reading the Wilder book....I had read the Easy Lessons book and the DM book, but for some reason I did not clue into the real meaning of "let the mantra refine itself" until reading the Wilder book. Something in that book clued me into the fact that I should not be "reciting" the mantra, but that the mantra should be reciting me....and I acheived that like this....I would visualize the mantra in my minds eye at first...I would picture the words in capital letters and recite it in my mind a few times like this. Then I would switch to visualizing the words "i am" as lower case letters...then I would let the "font size" get smaller, and smaller and smaller, until I didn't "see" the words anymore and was just sort of "feeling" them. After a while I found that I wasn't "reciting the mantra" anymore and I found that it was reciting itself. And at this point I didn't have to "focus" on the mantra and could just let all focus go and revel in the silence because the mantra was doing itself.
I no longer use this technique unless my mind is ultra scattered when sitting down for DM, but it seems effective in certain situations for certain people.  As always, what may work for one may not work for another, and we each need to find our own paths....the AYP lessons are the best "jump off point" that I think exist so if it ain't broke don't fix it![]

Love,
Carson[^]

[ymladris]

Hi Yogani,
my 2 cents: your intellectual introduction to mechanics of bhakti and meditation worked for me extremely great: i really started practising on regular basis ... followed almost immediately with calm state and inner silence in daily life. During the last year i've had several iterations being on and off DM and i can totally subscribe to the fact that very simple procedure of DM triggers inner silence and deepens in.

I am very lazy/impatient person to go properly with the whole AYP routine. Zero success with tantric approach (i simply want to keep my orgasm ;-)). Not enough patience to work on energy level properly (SBP etc.) : not exactly sure, why i don't have enough devotion?

The second best contribution for me was the book on self-inquiry - conceptual frame of dissolving things in stillness etc. Perfect teaching which worked on me.

Of course, i want dispassion, stillness in action, THAT, and all that stuff ;-), you know, and i want it now! My main experiences of that kind come from practices based on body movement & dissolving everything. Sound (music) is awesome trigger. So i can recommend to enhance AYP by psychedelic trance with psychedelic projections ;-D.  It's like multisensoric/multidimensional mantra, but leeding not to samadhi, but to the experience "when the dancer is lost and only the dance remain"

i have no idea if such a "direct introduction" has big importance in a whole process of unfolding self-inquiry; i assume that by meditating and samyama eventually the same result will come naturaly. But for me, these experiences are big boost to daily formal and informal practises (i am very lazy and distracted person) and -maybe- a trailer for where am i going.

Maybe The Way of Psytrance Dance can be useful to someone, i don't know. I don't use any psychoactive substances, but have some history years ago.

Thanks again. I'am constantly learning from your attitude to AYP project and forum.

[Ko Hsuan]

I have been doing AYP since 2003 but even before that i was practicing another Zen-Buddhist system of one small school..  Long story of attempts to combine both together (sect master was not allow to do that) had finished that i quit AYP and concentrate solely on my master system.

But around 2 years ago he decided that he achieved everything and went with couple of disciples in high mountains of very remote area and nobody seen them again (even close relatives).. Must to mention that he was really strange asian guys with a lot of the stuff that nobody could even understand (including UFO, dwarfs, talking to dragons, etc)

So I restarted what left from him ( I wasn't top student so get only initial stage practices)and combined with AYP and eventually I came to some kind of system which suits me well.

One main thing i got from him that morning and evening trainings never should be done the same order.
In morning we going from YIN state to YANG so  roughly speaking pranayama-meditation-asana-dynamic exercises

For night training we are going from YANG to YIN (but  still keep pranayma before meditation)
dynamic exercises-asana-pranajama-meditation..

[YogaIsLife]

Damn Neptune, you are sour... It seems to me you are not having enough fun with your lower preternatural beings...

I think people are grown up enough to be able to judge for themselves who to believe or not believe and to behave accordingly. No need for sermons, that is my opinion.

Live and let live Brother!

[Anthem]

I see the trip from here with distractions to Being Here without distractions as the only one that matters. The wisdom of not looking under the hood comes from the understanding that the mind loves to tinker and diverge and in the end it will only serve to slow the journey down. If you have fun playing with energy, exploring astral realities or playing with different systems of practice by all means go for it, but when it comes down to it, I'd choose inner peace and liberation as well as the fastest path for It to blossom here.

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

I wanted to add a couple comments.
I can understand that people come to this website as beginners, and Yogani's system is based on his previous experiences as to what whould be effective practices.
On the other hand, there are experienced, kundalini active individuals who consider this as a congregation place, to discuss and hear from peers who are also well along on their way as well.
So there are numerous different subgroups. There are crazies and there are neurotics. There are druggies and religious fundamentalists in their "one and only way" approach.
I say, don't take all this stuff too seriously. Have fun and explore whatever you have access to. There is an awful lot of serious furrowed brows who frequent these furums, and many forumites who are pretty uninterested in anything a little outside of what Yogani has written in the lessons.
Let me give an example. There are lower worlds of preternatural beings and ghosts that pop up in samadhic states and numerous astral dimensions. Enjoy these folks. Rest with these strange beings with detachment and there is no reason to fear them. this all the fun of mysticism. Go with the flow. Your ancestors will visit you. And wise ones too, like Babaji. He's right there, totally immediate.
Don't take your "path" too seriously. Life is all fun and games so enjoy the ride. And I am kind of bored by people saying to stick with the lessons and stay out from being under the automobile hood of your astral stationwagon. That's all the fun kids. Enjoy. Who'se trying to go anywhere on a "path' to California? There's no wheres to go. Be content in New Jersey.
N
P.S.
There is a tendency for Yogani's followers to adopt a rigid monolithic point of view. because they are just being...followers.
When does the following stop and the real journey of discovery begin, standing on your own two feet? Just a rebellious thought for the church goers here.

No one at this forum has ever told anyone.. don't practice what you are practicing if it is helping them, if however things are getting out of hand and/or they are practicing AYP then stick to it till you can ride the bike without training wheels. This way we know how to help them with their questions.. since many of us have traveled this path.

Many here have had visions of Babaji and lower and higher beings and the third eye and flames and have the most awesome samadhi experiences, etc... and it's not that people don't talk about it.. they do.. in the beginning, when it's new and oh so awesome..and oh so pleasant.. but soon you realize.. it really is just scenery.. how you feel in your every day life is so much more important than having a session of deep blissful meditation and/or seeing the most wonderful visions. So after a while we don't find it important to talk about it because we know getting attached to visions is more of a mind pleaser and it's very easy to get distracted by this and/or expect it.  Also, when we talk too much about such things, people who are not experiencing it feel like they are not progressing because maybe these visions are a sign of progress.. when in reality you can progress without having a single vision.

Trying to "get" stuff under the hood makes things complicated... and you are contradicting yourself.. if you want people to enjoy.. then trying to figure things under the hood is actually complicating stuff.. how many people really care how the car operates under the hood.. all they care about is how the car drives. If you had to actually learn how the car operates in order to drive, not many would be driving today.

Have we every told you Neptune don't follow your practices, follow AYP.. we may have right in the beginning, but once we figured out that your system works for you.. we let it be.. so why wont you let it be for us? For the longest time I have seen, you seem go through phases when you to get all huffy and angry with Yogani, AYP and the AYP practitioners. We haven't changed, you have not left us yet.. so maybe it's time to do some self inquiry into this constriction you seem to have. Instead you getting angry because the forum is not running the way you wish it would, take the anger into inquiry/meditation with you.

There is a powerful technique taught in the Vigyana Bhairava Tantra:
http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv1/chapter15.html#024

WHEN A MOOD AGAINST SOMEONE OR FOR SOMEONE ARISES, DO NOT PLACE IT ON THE PERSON IN QUESTION, BUT REMAIN CENTERED.
If hate arises for someone or against someone, or love arises for someone, what do we do? We project it on the person. If you feel hate toward me, you forget yourself completely in your hate; only I become your object. If you feel love toward me, you forget yourself completely; only I become the object. You project your love or hate or whatsoever upon me. You forget completely the inner center of your being; the other becomes the center. This sutra says when hate arises or love arises, or any mood for or against anyone, do not project it on the person in question. Remember, you are the source of it.

Remain centered. Remember that you are the source, so do not move to the other, move to the source. When you feel hate, do not go to the object. Go to the point from where the hate is coming. Go not to the person to whom it is going, but to the center from where it is coming. Move to the center, go within. Use your hate or love or anger or anything as a journey toward your inner center, to the source. Move to the source and remain centered there.

[CarsonZi]

Hi Neptune and thanks for posting and giving us all your honest opinions.....

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

I can understand that people come to this website as beginners, and Yogani's system is based on his previous experiences as to what whould be effective practices.
On the other hand, there are experienced, kundalini active individuals who consider this as a congregation place, to discuss and hear from peers who are also well along on their way as well.
So there are numerous different subgroups. There are crazies and there are neurotics. There are druggies and religious fundamentalists in their "one and only way" approach.

Isn't it beautiful?  I love it!  I think it's great that there are all these people here with all these different backgrounds, different practice sets and versions of AYP!  There is no limit to what we can learn here if everyone shares their perspectives honestly, openly and without judging each other negatively for being different then ourselves.  Nothing wrong with a little diversity is there?

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

I say, don't take all this stuff too seriously. Have fun and explore whatever you have access to.

Bravo!  Don't take ANYTHING to seriously![)]  What is life about if not "having fun?"  Explore away my friend!

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

There is an awful lot of serious furrowed brows who frequent these furums, and many forumites who are pretty uninterested in anything a little outside of what Yogani has written in the lessons.

Well Neptune....are there really that many "furrowed brows" here or is there a potential that you may be projecting that from within?  I personally don't find many people being scolded for deviating from the lessons but that is just me....perhaps I am missing the threads you are refering to.  And yes there may be some people who choose to stick to the lessons pretty strictly, but everyone is allowed to choose for themselves how to proceed...the beauty of AYP is that it is SELF directed.  No one here is telling you how to practice, no one here is telling you to post on the forum, everything you do is your choice and we are here to help you figure things out along the way should you need it.  Thats it thats all.  Everything on this site is a suggestion not a requirement.  "You choose your own level of involvement." (Tyler Durden, Fight Club[B)]"  

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

Let me give an example. There are lower worlds of preternatural beings and ghosts that pop up in samadhic states and numerous astral dimensions. Enjoy these folks. Rest with these strange beings with detachment and there is no reason to fear them. this all the fun of mysticism. Go with the flow. Your ancestors will visit you. And wise ones too, like Babaji. He's right there, totally immediate.

Scenery Bro....and the reason there is not a lot of talk about stuff like this is because this stuff is impermanent.  It doesn't matter.  It will happen and then it will not happen...you may have a vision of aliens one day in samadhi, and the next day you may only be able to repeat the mantra twice 'cause your mind is so scattered.  So why talk about what is not important and makes no difference?  Or maybe I should say, talk away about what you want, but don't expect everyone to jump right in on it because many see this type of stuff as pure scenery to be enjoyed when it's there but also to be let go of because some days it won't be.  Make sense?

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

Don't take your "path" too seriously. Life is all fun and games so enjoy the ride.

Agreed my friend.  What is there that is worth letting go of the enjoyment of this journey for?  Anything?  Nothing comes to mind for me!  

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

And I am kind of bored by people saying to stick with the lessons and stay out from being under the automobile hood of your astral stationwagon.

That's honest and I can appreciate that.  Everyone has a different background and comes to this journey with different perspectives.  Just beware that the tinkering under the hood that you find so "fun", may end up keeping you from your ultimate goals if you are too busy having fun along the way and forgetting to progress.

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

That's all the fun kids. Enjoy

I wouldn't say that's ALL the fun![]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

Who'se trying to go anywhere on a "path' to California? There's no wheres to go. Be content in New Jersey.

But it's warmer in Cali! whine whine.....

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

There is a tendency for Yogani's followers to adopt a rigid monolithic point of view. because they are just being...followers.

There is also a tendency for others to judge where they think another practitioner is along the journey....so take a little time and inquire a little deeper into what you actually CAN and CAN'T know.  Can you absolutely know that it is true that the people who choose to stick to the lessons rigidly are just "followers" or is there a potential that they may just simply have faith in Yogani's teachings and have no desire to deviate?  Could that have ANY truth to it?

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

When does the following stop and the real journey of discovery begin, standing on your own two feet? Just a rebellious thought for the church goers here.

Each person is in charge of their own journey Neptune.  We aren't asking you to rigidly stick to the lessons, so why ask others who are happy using Yogani's practice set as perscribed to start searching elsewhere if they are content?  It's a two way street my brother and I hope you will choose to see this.  I wish you all the best.

Love,
Carson[^]

[Shredder]

quote:Originally posted by yogani



 So, we begin with the basics and go from there, connecting with knowledge, practices and experiences in ways that best suit our nature. We will know it when we see it.

The guru is in you.

Hi Yogani, and all. I really do not have much to add. Yogani's first and second posts sums it up for me pretty well. I just want to thank Yogani, for AYP, the web site, the free lessons, the forum, the books, ect, and of course the posters on the forum. All these things have been a blessing in my life. I have a mechanical/engineering type background, and these lessons seem like they are taylor made for me, I'm sure I'm not the only one. I appreciate the down to earthiness of them. I seem to get lost in all the gobbly goop of other systems/philosophies, and while I'm still fairly new here, I gauge my progress, compared with where I was, as outstanding, and eagerly await whatever unfolds..........shredder

[atena]

I made a pretty cool personal discovery into potential of acupressure last night:

I was having a nasty headache/pressure (from overdoing DM) with a big chunk of stuck emotion, intellect trying to resolve it with more thinking... and then decided to give acupressure a try for the problem. I used a number of points for headache and head wind. That session pretty much dissolved both the headache and that emotional resistance...

The overload didn't disappear but eased a lot. Back to self pacing...

[atena]

A way to release trapped heat from the system I really can recommend: '5 animals do the 6 healing sounds'. Been doing that qigong a lot, and for some 2 weeks in combination with dm. Seems also to ground the ecstatic energies a lot. Ecstacy just feels a bit too 'noisy' state for my taste